What constitutes an appeal?

[RBIbaseball]

LL majors game. 3 umps.

R2, 1 out. Pop fly to 3rd base. Coach was mistakenly yelling "2 outs run run", so R2 goes and reaches 3B just as F5 catches the ball. Everyone in the stands is yelling tag the runner (clearly he did not tag up). F5 tags the runner while he is standing on 3B, but the other base ump on that side makes no call. F5 lets go of the tag a little confused, and then R2 sprints back toward 2B. They throw him out cleanly before he reaches 2B.

Even though the coaches got their out, they came to argue the call saying he should have been out of 3B. 

1) What constitutes an appeal? The player/coach announcing it? In this case, the coach was yelling to "tag the runner he didn't tag up" toward his team (as well as about 20 fans). Does the coach or player have to clearly state to an umpire it's an appeal? Does the player have to understand he is appealing?

I explained to them that simply tagging the runner standing on the base does not get an out, but if they clearly state they are appealing the tag at second then it would have. But not sure if that's right.

[maven]

2 hours ago, RBIbaseball said:

My take away is that it's a judgement call on intent to appeal.

It's easier than that. Just ask.

1. Fielder tags runner.
2. Me: why are you tagging him?
3. Fielder: he didn't tag up.
4. Me: He's out!

And the conversation does not have to take place with the fielder: in some situations, I might ask the "defense." And if play is continuing, the conversation can take place during the next dead ball (the appeal is the tag, not the conversation, and the tag occurred during a live ball).

[stkjock]

4 hours ago, maven said:

It's easier than that. Just ask.

1. Fielder tags runner.
2. Me: why are you tagging him?
3. Fielder: he didn't tag up.
4. Me: He's out!

And the conversation does not have to take place with the fielder: in some situations, I might ask the "defense." And if play is continuing, the conversation can take place during the next dead ball (the appeal is the tag, not the conversation, and the tag occurred during a live ball).

get out of here with your logic and simplicity!  this is the internet... Serious buizzzzznesss....

[maven]

39 minutes ago, stkjock said:

get out of hear with your logic and simplicity!  this is the internet... Serious buizzzzznesss....

[beerguy55]

12 hours ago, RBIbaseball said:

 

Take it with a grain of salt, as I have less than 15 games under my belt. One thing is that I am convinced is - that during that play -  I was not convinced the player was appealing the play vs tagging the runner cause that's what he knows how to do. I was unsure to say the least and felt strongly that it was the latter. If you still feel that you would grant an appeal on the play, I will not argue that you are wrong, but I definitely don't think its a clear and shut case like you make it out to be. My take away is that it's a judgement call on intent to appeal.

You're right that it's a judgment call - judgment comes from experience and some (un)common sense.

You gotta go one of two ways here - if you're not considering this an appeal  (and I agree, there's enough language from the coaches and/or other players to indicate that THEY want an appeal - it necessarily doesn't matter what F5 wants) then you need to be clear that the runner is safe because he's touching the base.

What you don't want is for the defense to believe that they have appealed properly, and that you are calling the runner safe on the appeal (ie. you're ruling he didn't leave early)...meaning they don't know that they haven't appealed yet.

Hopefully it goes something like:

"safe"

"but he left early"

"out"

 

Outside of the fielder obviously accidentally stepping on a base (eg. throw comes into F4, as he runs towards pitcher's mound he happens to touch/trip over second base) I think you want to err on the side of the defense and deduce they are appealing - it is, after all, the offense that committed the infraction - you want the defense to do their job, but you don't want to "reward" the offense on a technicality either.

It's a lot easier to argue "I saw that as an appeal" vs "I didn't think that was an appeal" - besides...the offense has a very low likelihood of arguing that it wasn't an appeal (because most coaches won't know the "obvious" standard) - they're more likely to say "but he was on the base", at which point you just say "on an appeal it doesn't matter - he left second early, so he's not safe on third".