bunted ball hit by the bat

[Guest guest dad]

NFHS rule set.  zero outs.  batter bunts the ball into fair territory and releases the bat as he begins to run.  The bat makes very weak contact with the ball but does not alter the course of the ball dramatically or substantially.  The catcher makes an excellent throw to retire the b/r.  What says the knowledge base?

[SavoyBG]

19 minutes ago, Guest guest dad said:

NFHS rule set.  zero outs.  batter bunts the ball into fair territory and releases the bat as he begins to run.  The bat makes very weak contact with the ball but does not alter the course of the ball dramatically or substantially.  The catcher makes an excellent throw to retire the b/r.  What says the knowledge base?

If the bat was still moving when it contacted the ball the batter is out for interference, all runners return to where they were at the time of the pitch. If the bat had stopped moving and the ball rolled into the bat, it's nothing. The ball remains live.

[Gfoley4]

17 minutes ago, SavoyBG said:

If the bat was still moving when it contacted the ball the batter is out for interference, all runners return to where they were at the time of the pitch. If the bat had stopped moving and the ball rolled into the bat, it's nothing. The ball remains live.

do you have a cite? What you said is my understanding of the rule, but I couldn't find anything regarding this particular situation in the casebook nor rulebook.

[noumpere]

The FED rule *might* be different:

 

ART. 1 . . . The batter-runner is out when" ...

d. after hitting or bunting a ball, he intentionally contacts the ball with the bat a second time in fair or foul territory. The ball is dead and no runner(s) advance.

1. In the case of a foul ball, it must have a chance to become fair in the umpire's judgment.

2. If the bat and ball accidentally come in contact with each other a second time while the batter is holding the bat in the batter's box, it is a foul ball.

[Gfoley4]

16 minutes ago, noumpere said:

The FED rule *might* be different:

 

ART. 1 . . . The batter-runner is out when" ...

d. after hitting or bunting a ball, he intentionally contacts the ball with the bat a second time in fair or foul territory. The ball is dead and no runner(s) advance.

1. In the case of a foul ball, it must have a chance to become fair in the umpire's judgment.

2. If the bat and ball accidentally come in contact with each other a second time while the batter is holding the bat in the batter's box, it is a foul ball.

Yep. And to add on, the only part I could find specifically mentioning "unintentionally" is 

Casebook 8.4.1 Situation A: "After bunting a ball, B1's bat, which is still in his hand, unintentionally strikes the ball a second time on fair territory while (a) he is still in the batter's box or (b) he is outside the batter's box.

Ruling: (a) is a foul ball (b) the ball is dead and the batter is out"

But, this situation in the OP seems a bit different as the bat is not in the batter's hand when the second contact was made.

[SavoyBG]

45 minutes ago, Gfoley4 said:

do you have a cite? What you said is my understanding of the rule, but I couldn't find anything regarding this particular situation in the casebook nor rulebook.

No.

[Senor Azul]

2019 NFHS Case Book Play 2.5.1 Situation E:  The batter hits the ball, drops the bat and it unintentionally hits the ball a second time in (a) fair territory and is either touched by a fielder and/or comes to rest in fair territory; (b) foul territory and is either touched by a fielder and/or comes to rest in either fair or foul territory; (c) fair territory and is either touched by a fielder and/or comes to rest in foul territory. RULING:  In (a), the ball is fair. In (b) and (c), the ball is foul.

[MT73]

6 hours ago, SavoyBG said:

If the bat was still moving when it contacted the ball the batter is out for interference, all runners return to where they were at the time of the pitch. If the bat had stopped moving and the ball rolled into the bat, it's nothing. The ball remains live.

That is true in OBR but not Fed.

[SavoyBG]

5 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

2019 NFHS Case Book Play 2.5.1 Situation E:  The batter hits the ball, drops the bat and it unintentionally hits the ball a second time in (a) fair territory and is either touched by a fielder and/or comes to rest in fair territory; (b) foul territory and is either touched by a fielder and/or comes to rest in either fair or foul territory; (c) fair territory and is either touched by a fielder and/or comes to rest in foul territory. RULING:  In (a), the ball is fair. In (b) and (c), the ball is foul.

It's amazing how many rules have a very different ruling under various rulebooks. So in Fed the ball is still live. It seems like if the bat hits the ball in fair territory and knocks the ball into foul territory that it would be a foul ball.

[noumpere]

13 hours ago, SavoyBG said:

 It seems like if the bat hits the ball in fair territory and knocks the ball into foul territory that it would be a foul ball.

The same as the ball hitting any other object foreign to the natural ground (or whatever the specific wording is)

[SavoyBG]

11 hours ago, noumpere said:

The same as the ball hitting any other object foreign to the natural ground (or whatever the specific wording is)

So if the batter's helmet comes off as he starts running and the helmet contacts the ball and knocks it foul, it would be foul?

 

 

[noumpere]

10 hours ago, SavoyBG said:

So if the batter's helmet comes off as he starts running and the helmet contacts the ball and knocks it foul, it would be foul?

 

 

Yes.  And if it's the runner's helmet (assumng the ball isn't already fair, of course).  Or a glove (not intentionally tossed to contact the ball.)  etc.

[Senor Azul]

2007 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 2: With R1 on first base, B2 hits a ground ball to F4. While running to second base, R1's batting helmet falls off (a) and makes contact with the batted ball, deflecting it away from F4, or (b) in front of F4, which distracts him and results in his misplaying the ball. RULING: If R1's helmet accidentally fell off, there would be no penalty in either (a) or (b). Had the helmet been deliberately removed, and interference occurred, then R1 would have been declared out for interference. The umpire could also rule out B2 if he judged the interference prevented a double play. (8-4-2g, 8-4-1h)

FED Official Interpretation:  Hopkins:  A batter-runner or runner may not deliberately throw a helmet or other personal equipment and interfere with a batted or thrown ball, or a fielder’s attempt to play on that ball. PENALTY:  The ball is dead, the interferer is out, and other runners remain TOI. The umpire may declare two outs if he judged the interference prevented a double play.

[Richvee]

The fact that FED says the contact between the ball and dropped bat must be intentional to have INT is consistent with FED’s rule of  a dropped 3rd K.  OBR says if a batter steps on/ kicks a D3K it’s INT if it clearly hinders F2’s ability to make a play. FED says if the batter kicks, steps on, or otherwise contacts the D3K it’s nothing unless intentional.