Base on Balls

[Guest Jim]

Ok....here’s the situation....man on first base ...man at bat receives ball 4 and man on first takes off the second and the catcher throws him out at 2nd....the ump calls him out and ends the inning...we go through the top inning 3 up and out....now, we realized , although too late,  that the throw out to second should have happened .... automatic base because the batter walked....we missed it and so at our next at bat....we bat the man after the walk....he gets up....takes the first pitch and the opposing coach declares batting out of order....we appeal to the ump that the last batter had walked and it should have been a dead ball....but we all missed it and we batted the order correctly.....did we actually do it right....? Some say that the walked batter should have batted again because he did not get his base.....HELP!!!

 

Jim

[Biscuit]

This is a seriously messed up situation that should have never happened... How does NO ONE notice? 

Regardless, it's far too late to correct it at that point. There may be other, better ways to handle this, but here's how I'd call it.

R1(or BR, which ever happens first) should be declared out when they abandon their efforts by going to the dugout. Ends the half inning. Next up is whoever bats after the batter who walked. (You got that part right)

 

EDIT: addressing parts of the OP I didn't address

A walk is not a dead ball, and it's up to you and your players to know the situation. It's not the umpires fault, and it's certainly not the defenses fault, you just screwed yourself.

I can't think if any reason that R1 should even be discussed as the next batter. That's totally illogical.

[Mister B]

A walk is not a dead ball, the ball is very much alive. I coached a game where the catcher took off his mitt, with the ball in it and started fussing with his gear. R1 touched 2B and took off for 3B, a horrible throw to LF brought him home and B/R made it to 3B on the errors. The opposing coach, who had previously sent a walked B/R  to 2B where he was thrown out, demanded that the ball was dead because his catcher had gear issues on a walk. Problem was nobody asked the umpire for time. 

[yawetag]

Since @Biscuit and @Mister B gave you excellent answers to the real problem of the incident, I'd like to take a moment and talk about the batting out of order.

What exactly did the umpire do when the opposing coach brought up the batting out of order?

[beerguy55]

There is yet another possibility here.

What if the umps determined it wasn't a walk, and that it was ball three?

I imagine the conversation for the MYTAB is about whether or not the batter did walk.

 

Keep in mind that, conceivably, R1 could still be ruled out on the steal after the walk.    If he were to slide or run past the base, and then get tagged before returning he would indeed be out, and the next inning would start with the next batter after the one who walked.

Umps make mistakes - coaches and players have a responsibility too.  If 9-12 players on your bench, two coaches on the field, and other coaches, scorekeepers, managers, and parents didn't notice and say something immediately you gotta eat whatever SH*# sandwich comes as a result of this mess.

You have so many avenues, but they all depend on you addressing it immediately - whether you appeal, or, if the umpire insists the runner is out, formally protest, it needs to be addressed immediately.  

Once you all leave the field the ump's call stands.

[Biscuit]

10 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

...

What if the umps determined it wasn't a walk, and that it was ball three?

...

Hmm? Are you saying that both umpires had the count wrong and had it as ball three? In such case, it would still be the base runner's (and coaches) job to know the situation and have him stay at the bag until the situation got sorted.

[beerguy55]

23 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

Hmm? Are you saying that both umpires had the count wrong and had it as ball three? In such case, it would still be the base runner's (and coaches) job to know the situation and have him stay at the bag until the situation got sorted.

Or PU has ball three and BU wasn't paying attention...OR, it actually was ball three.

I'm more thinking the situation goes something like this - remember that a full half inning has passed.

DC appeals wrong batter.  R1 was caught stealing, B1 should be up.

OC says, we just realized you made a mistake, B1 walked, and you called R1 out anyway.  So, B2 should be up.

Umps likely won't recall that they had a walk...and, practically speaking, as humans are humans, do you think it's likely they would both suddenly go "oh crap, yeah, he did walk, and oops on the out".

The likely ending here, I think, is the umps rule the B1 didn't walk...that's why R1 was called out.   (it's your own fault for running - this would also be a better explanation to why NOBODY noticed R1 shouldn't have been called out on a walk - I think it's more likely that B1 thought he walked and when he started going to first R1 figured, "oh, it was ball four" and he just went to second...and coach, likely having a moment of doubt figured, well, if they're both going I must have missed a pitch - THAT is a far more likely occurrence than everybody knowing it was a walk and nobody noticing the runner shouldn't have been called out)

Having said all that - since DC appealed after ball one, "he takes the first pitch", B1 simply takes his place and count.

[Biscuit]

11 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Or BU has ball three and PU wasn't paying attention...OR, it actually was ball three.

I'm more thinking the situation goes something like this - remember that a full half inning has passed.

DC appeals wrong batter.  R1 was caught stealing, B1 should be up.

OC says, we just realized you made a mistake, B1 walked, and you called R1 out anyway.  So, B2 should be up.

Umps likely won't recall that they had a walk...and, practically speaking, as humans are humans, do you think it's likely they would both suddenly go "oh crap, yeah, he did walk, and oops on the out".

The likely ending here, I think, is the umps rule the B1 didn't walk...that's why R1 was called out.   (it's your own fault for running - this would also be a better explanation to why NOBODY noticed R1 shouldn't have been called out on a walk - I think it's more likely that B1 thought he walked and when he started going to first R1 figured, "oh, it was ball four" and he just went to second...and coach, likely having a moment of doubt figured, well, if they're both going I must have missed a pitch - THAT is a far more likely occurrence than everybody knowing it was a walk and nobody noticing the runner shouldn't have been called out)

Having said all that - since DC appealed after ball one, "he takes the first pitch", B1 simply takes his place and count.

I think you're right that it's a much more likely scenario. However, is this not a situation where you'd go to the book and check if they have a walk? I guess the argument is that there's a very good chance that they have it wrong in the book with all that happened, but it is the official record of the game. 

[beerguy55]

10 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

I think you're right that it's a much more likely scenario. However, is this not a situation where you'd go to the book and check if they have a walk? I guess the argument is that there's a very good chance that they have it wrong in the book with all that happened, but it is the official record of the game. 

I would agree.   I just find it highly unlikely that the scorekeeper ALSO records it as a walk and says nothing when BU calls out R1 (they're also the home team in this scenario, so scorekeeper is likely theirs).  It would greatly depend on whether scorekeeper is tracking balls/strikes/pitch count.  But, I guess, if you do have it as a walk in the book(or both books) the umps would probably go with it - though they could conceivably correct the scorekeeper "no, that was ball three" (or, even better, "I called that pitch a strike - don't really know why everyone thinks I called a ball").   

I think the likely ending is B1 replaces B2 with a 1-0 count.

[yawetag]

3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Umps likely won't recall that they had a walk...and, practically speaking, as humans are humans, do you think it's likely they would both suddenly go "oh crap, yeah, he did walk, and oops on the out".

I barely remember the outs of the current half-inning. No way I'm remembering what happened a full inning before.

[Richvee]

I’m going with ball4, throw down to second. R1 overslides 2B. R1 tagged off the bag. Walk stands, inning over. 

[SavoyBG]

On 4/10/2019 at 12:59 AM, Biscuit said:

This is a seriously messed up situation that should have never happened... How does NO ONE notice? 

Regardless, it's far too late to correct it at that point. There may be other, better ways to handle this, but here's how I'd call it.

R1(or BR, which ever happens first) should be declared out when they abandon their efforts by going to the dugout. Ends the half inning. Next up is whoever bats after the batter who walked. (You got that part right)

 

EDIT: addressing parts of the OP I didn't address

A walk is not a dead ball, and it's up to you and your players to know the situation. It's not the umpires fault, and it's certainly not the defenses fault, you just screwed yourself.

I can't think if any reason that R1 should even be discussed as the next batter. That's totally illogical.

 

Of course it's the umpire's fault. The plate guy should have fixed the mistake right away when the base guy called the runner out.

[Biscuit]

25 minutes ago, SavoyBG said:

 

Of course it's the umpire's fault. The plate guy should have fixed the mistake right away when the base guy called the runner out.

I suppose I misspoke. I meant that it's not the umpires fault that the offensive team weren't aware of the situation. The crew definitely screwed the pooch on this one too.