Should I have or Shouldn't I have???

[Umpire in Chief]

R1 & R2 less than 2 outs. IFF situation. I'm in C. "Adult" league.

Ball is popped up high. Prior to it reaching it's apex I call and signal IFF. I turn to pick up the fielder who "should be" making a play and there is no one there. The closest fielder is F9 who is charging in hard but has no play but fields it on the hop. F3 was covering 1st. The ball lands in the OF grass about 10 from the cutout and about 25 feet from the marks in the infield dirt where F4 had been playing. F4 ended up in the grass behind 2nd - How I don't know. The runners were not going so there was no need for him to cover 2nd. I do make a habit to know where my infielders are prior to the pitch to help me get a feel for what might happen and he was there before the pitch. 

Had I not called the IFF F9 would have easily been able to put out R1 at second and possibly cause a tag play on R2 at third. But the second play would be a close. 

Here comes the argument, "There was nobody there to make a catch" 

I stuck with my call. 

Post-game my partner (who is really great) said it could have gone either way. He would not have called IFF knowing there was nobody to make the catch. But he said adults should be able to make a catch anywhere on the infield and a little beyond especially given the height that fly ball had. His take on it was that F4 maybe took a VERY bad read on the ball and was out of position (lighting here is horrible popups can go above the lights where they are lost until they enter the lights again). But even from the C position as it was going up I knew approximately where it was going to land.

My post game self analysis was it was horrible timing and had I made the call after finding a fielder to catch it I might have not called it, but am not positive.

What say you?

[BobUmp]

I would say don't beat yourself up. Most likely, its IFF anyways. I think you are assessing yourself correctly. No need to rush an IFF call. Heck, you can make it after it hits the ground if you want. The rule is there to protect the offense from an easy double play on a popup ball that should be caught with normal effort by an infielder. If you wait to call IFF until its on the way down and almost at catching height, you have time to assess if a cheap DP can happen on a miss, so you will have less arguments on the call either way.

 

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[VolUmp]

I also say don't beat yourself up -- but you did miss the call if no one was there to catch it.  ORDINARY EFFORT was not present.  The only one who could have caught it was not an infielder.  Where the ball ultimately lands, who ulitamately catches it are both irrelevant.

[Richvee]

When I see a ball go up in an IFF sitch, I immediately find the infielders to see what they're up to.   They'll tell me if they have a bead on it, if they're camped under it,  or sprinting hard to get there, etc. That helps me with the timing of the IFF call. In your situation, if I saw the ball go up, I would hope my next move would be to pick up F4 and F3 to see if either was going to make an (easy, ordinary) catch before deciding on calling an IFF. 

You're 100% right about timing. As with all calls we make that we later feel may have been wrong, , it's almost always timing that gets us in trouble. Waiting a little longer here to see what the infielders were doing may have led you to a different call. It's not fair for me to say what was the right call here, but I would guess the next time you see pop up that no infielder is going to catch, you'll refrain from an IFF call.

[Replacematt]

From what I'm seeing, this is IFF. IFF has nothing to do with whether a fielder attempted to field a fly ball; just what a fielder with ordinary effort could have done. I do think you called this too early, but the call itself was not incorrect.

[noumpere]

9 hours ago, VolUmp said:

I also say don't beat yourself up -- but you did miss the call if no one was there to catch it.  ORDINARY EFFORT was not present.  The only one who could have caught it was not an infielder.  Where the ball ultimately lands, who ulitamately catches it are both irrelevant.

disagree.  F4 COULD have caught the ball with ordinary effort.  The fact that he ran toward second base instead of the ball is his problem, not ours.  99.9% of the time, in anything above, perhaps, 11U, if there's a fly ball that lands in the infield or the dirt, and the ball is high enough to say "Infield fly, batter's out" between the apex and the ball hitting the ground -- it's an infield fly (and, I do not mean to imply that what I wrote is the criteria.)

edit:  Or, what Matt said.

[Rich Ives]

9 hours ago, VolUmp said:

I also say don't beat yourself up -- but you did miss the call if no one was there to catch it.  ORDINARY EFFORT was not present.  The only one who could have caught it was not an infielder.  Where the ball ultimately lands, who ulitamately catches it are both irrelevant.

It's COULD BE caught with ordinary effort.  Running away from the ball doesn't change the "could be". Changes what the coach says to the player though.

[Richvee]

11 hours ago, noumpere said:

disagree.  F4 COULD have caught the ball with ordinary effort.  The fact that he ran toward second base instead of the ball is his problem, not ours.  99.9% of the time, in anything above, perhaps, 11U, if there's a fly ball that lands in the infield or the dirt, and the ball is high enough to say "Infield fly, batter's out" between the apex and the ball hitting the ground -- it's an infield fly (and, I do not mean to imply that what I wrote is the criteria.)

edit:  Or, what Matt said.

OK, this is interesting to me. I know I've read in multiple publications that where the ball is in regard to the infield/outfield, dirt/grass line has no bearing on whether or not a ball is an IFF, only that the pop fly "can easily be handled by an infielder" .  I never thought of thinking of this as "if the infielder chose to go after the ball." or "if the infielder started from his normal spot on the field"

R1, R2,no outs. F4 miss reads a sign for a pick off and is running towards 2B as the pitch is delivered. (or just playing behind 2B in a shift). F3 is playing in for a bunt. Pop up 15 feet behind where a "normal" F4 plays. F4, F3, F9 all run full speed in an effort to get to the ball. No one gets to it. IFF? Because it's not our problem F4 was out of position TOP?

I can't help but think about the famous post season IFF in Atlanta. I always though that was the correct call, mainly because F6 went out for that fly ball and called off F7 before he pealed off. Are you guys saying that on that particular play, if F6 chose early not to go after that popup and let F7 take it all the way that IFF would still be the correct call because if F6 had chose to go after it, in you're opinion, he could have got there with ordinary effort?

[noumpere]

11 hours ago, Richvee said:

R1, R2,no outs. F4 miss reads a sign for a pick off and is running towards 2B as the pitch is delivered. (or just playing behind 2B in a shift). F3 is playing in for a bunt. Pop up 15 feet behind where a "normal" F4 plays. F4, F3, F9 all run full speed in an effort to get to the ball. No one gets to it. IFF? Because it's not our problem F4 was out of position TOP?

 

That is NOT what I said, nor was it the OP. (and it's an example of why I said that what I wrote is not the criteria)

[beerguy55]

I go to the spirit and intent of the rule.  Which is to protect the offense and not allow a cheap double play where they are particularly vulnerable.  So, in the end I would rather see an IFF incorrectly called than incorrectly not called.  It's "can" be caught, not "shall".

On 8/16/2017 at 7:35 PM, Richvee said:

I can't help but think about the famous post season IFF in Atlanta. I always though that was the correct call, mainly because F6 went out for that fly ball and called off F7 before he pealed off. Are you guys saying that on that particular play, if F6 chose early not to go after that popup and let F7 take it all the way that IFF would still be the correct call because if F6 had chose to go after it, in you're opinion, he could have got there with ordinary effort?

I would agree with this.  And part of the equation of "can be caught" is the skill level of the defense.  There  should, theoretically, be more IFF's called in MLB because the infielders have a much wider range they can cover with ordinary effort.  They also have a much higher skillset and savvy to accidentally on purpose let these fly balls drop.

To your point about picking up the infielder to see if they're camped or sprinting, I'll go to the other extreme.  A weak batter comes to the plate, so the defense "shift" and have F7/8/9 all about three steps beyond the infield dirt, and infielders play inside the baselines...Batter hits a fly ball that doesn't even reach the grass and F7 immediately calls for it, and you know damned well he's going to let it drop to get R2 and R1 on forces - you're not going to call in IFF because an outfielder is actually making the play?  IMO, an infielder CAN make that catch with ordinary effort  (F6 is probably standing next to F7 to back him up) so it should be an IFF.