HR; teammates physically prevent batter from entering dugout before touching home

[bbrages]

11u game at local rec league. Assume that rules are OBR.

Runner on third, one out. Batter hits an over-the-fence HR (extremely rare at this level).

Batter-runner's team is in the third-base dugout. After the batter-runner touches third, he swings over to the dugout. Teammates at the entrance to the dugout are high-fiving him. BR seems to have forgotten about touching home and is about to enter dugout. Base coach begins screaming, "HOME! HOME!" and some of the BR's teammates in the dugout push him away from the dugout's opening. BR comes to his senses, touches home, and enters dugout.

 

Does the HR stand?

 

The ruling:

Opposing coach claimed the BR entered dugout and should be called out. Umpire judged that he did not enter the dugout. UIC is called and rules that the BR is out for being physically assisted by the teammates in the dugout.

 

Bonus questions:

(1) if the BR had entered the dugout, then returned to field and touched home, would he have been out?

(2) if the 3B coach had grabbed the BR and pulled him away from the dugout, would he be out?

[Jimurray]

2 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

 

In NCAA, I'm only calling an out for a coach physically assisting a runner. If a runner, retired runner, runner who has scored assists (as in the OP), I've got nothing.

In OBR, I guess I'd go with Wendelstedt since there's no other guidance.

 

And Bruns guidance would be ignored, as it should? Unless I lost something in the translation?

[grayhawk]

And Bruns guidance would be ignored, as it should? Unless I lost something in the translation?

He said he's okay with Paronto's quote, which said the rule only prevents coaches from assisting, not team mates.

[Jimurray]

3 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

 

He said he's okay with Paronto's quote, which said the rule only prevents coaches from assisting, not team mates.

 

Didn't Paronto agree that Hernandez call was correct. That a non active runner is considered a coach.

[Jimurray]

15 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Didn't Paronto agree that Hernandez call was correct. That a non active runner is considered a coach.

To refresh our memory.

Jim Paronto (NCAA) and Kyle McNeely (FED) both came back in agreement with the MLB call of out. Since the runner who scored is no longer considered a runner and he clearly assisted a runner who was making no attempt to return home, the runner is out for assistance.

[Senor Azul]

From the 2016 BRD (section 328, p. 217):

Interference by: Runner:  Assists Other Runner During Live Action

FED:  Point not covered.

Official Interpretation:  Rumble:  A following runner may aid another runner as long as he does not pass his teammate. (News 4/76 #34)

NCAA:  Point not covered.

Official Interpretation:  CCC:  A runner may assist in “redirecting” another runner to correct a baserunning error. (Feb. 2011, #7)

Play 187-328:  NCAA only. After touching home plate with the ball still alive, a following runner who touched the plate and scored grabs a preceding runner who missed home plate and pulls him over to touch home. Ruling:  The runner has not committed any infraction by assisting his teammate.

“Paronto continues…”There is no language in NCAA rules that prevents another player [from] assisting another teammate. Our rules only prevent a coach from assisting a player.”

[Jimurray]

8 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

From the 2016 BRD (section 328, p. 217):

Interference by: Runner:  Assists Other Runner During Live Action

FED:  Point not covered.

Official Interpretation:  Rumble:  A following runner may aid another runner as long as he does not pass his teammate. (News 4/76 #34)

NCAA:  Point not covered.

Official Interpretation:  CCC:  A runner may assist in “redirecting” another runner to correct a baserunning error. (Feb. 2011, #7)

Play 187-328:  NCAA only. After touching home plate with the ball still alive, a following runner who touched the plate and scored grabs a preceding runner who missed home plate and pulls him over to touch home. Ruling:  The runner has not committed any infraction by assisting his teammate.

“Paronto continues…”There is no language in NCAA rules that prevents another player [from] assisting another teammate. Our rules only prevent a coach from assisting a player.”

That would seem to seal it for NCAA as Paronto's most current interp. Just for fun I would quibble that a scored following runner can not be guilty of assisting because pulling his preceding runner to touch the plate does not aid the preceding runner. The preceding runner can not legally touch the plate. 

[Senor Azul]

That's pretty darned sharp of you, Mr. Jimurray. It turns out I missed a sentence from the Paronto quote-- I apologize. Here is the final sentence from the quote found in the BRD:

"Finally, he explains that [if Play 187-328 did occur] the defense could appeal the baserunning error and have the run canceled anyway.”

[JonnyCat]

So I finally got around to looking at my notes from my time at TUS/UTA. (Thank you Jimurray for being so patient!)

We did cover 7.09h, albeit briefly. Interestingly, I did write down the following two sentences, which seem to agree with Wendelstedt's interpretation of assistance.

"7.09h - A teammate, coach, or a runner who has scored cannot assist another runner. Runners chances were improved to accomplish his goal."

Not sure if this info was written on the screen from a Powerpoint, or just from the lecture. That's all I found, however, based on the fact that we did cover it, MiLB must have a ruling on this type of play. Granted, my notes are unofficial, but it may shed some light on how they want it called.

I'll try and reach out to someone at UTA and see if I can get more info. Hopefully someone there will remember me, and not immediately delete my inquiry! LOL!