disengaged and throwing to unocc. first base: balk?

[Guest olde yeller]

MLB rules.

Runner at third (only)

Our pitcher disengaged the rubber and threw to unoccupied first base.

The umpires conferred and called a balk., scoring R3, which tied the game.

Theu umpires stated that the pitcher properly disengaged but nevertheless cannot throw to unoccupied first base.

The umpires specifically stated that they were NOT alleging any deceptive intent on the part of the pitcher.

(I realize that intent is irrelevant)

In other words, we all agree on the facts.  We agreed it was a rules call, not a judgement call.  We disagreed on the rule.

We lost the game 2-1, and lodged a protest.

The umpires were extraordinarily professional throughout.

Thank you!

[Rich Ives]

14 minutes ago, Guest olde yeller said:

MLB rules.

Runner at third (only)

Our pitcher disengaged the rubber and threw to unoccupied first base.

The umpires conferred and called a balk., scoring R3, which tied the game.

Theu umpires stated that the pitcher properly disengaged but nevertheless cannot throw to unoccupied first base.

The umpires specifically stated that they were NOT alleging any deceptive intent on the part of the pitcher.

(I realize that intent is irrelevant)

In other words, we all agree on the facts.  We agreed it was a rules call, not a judgement call.  We disagreed on the rule.

We lost the game 2-1, and lodged a protest.

The umpires were extraordinarily professional throughout.

Thank you!

Once disengaged he is no longer a pitcher, he's an infielder.  An infielder can feint all he wants. An infielder cannot balk.This is the rule you want:

8.01 (e) If the pitcher removes his pivot foot from contact with the pitcher’s plate by stepping backward with that foot, he thereby becomes an infielder and if he makes a wild throw from that position, it shall be considered the same as a wild throw by any other infielder.
 

Rule 8.01(e) Comment: The pitcher, while off the rubber, may throw to any base. If he makes a wild throw, such throw is the throw of an infielder and what follows is governed by the rules covering a ball thrown by a fielder.

 

[Jimurray]

10 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Once disengaged he is no longer a pitcher, he's an infielder.  An infielder can feint all he wants. An infielder cannot balk.This is the rule you want:

8.01 (e) If the pitcher removes his pivot foot from contact with the pitcher’s plate by stepping backward with that foot, he thereby becomes an infielder and if he makes a wild throw from that position, it shall be considered the same as a wild throw by any other infielder.
 

Rule 8.01(e) Comment: The pitcher, while off the rubber, may throw to any base. If he makes a wild throw, such throw is the throw of an infielder and what follows is governed by the rules covering a ball thrown by a fielder.

 

Unless they cite this rule:

"8.05(h)  The pitcher unnecessarily delays the game;

Rule 8.05(h) Comment: Rule 8.05(h) shall not apply when a warning is given pursuant to

Rule 8.02(c) (which prohibits intentional delay of a game by throwing to fielders not in an attempt to put a runner out). If a pitcher is ejected pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) for continuing to delay the game, the penalty in Rule 8.05(h) shall also apply. Rule 8.04 (which sets a time limit for a pitcher to deliver the ball when the bases are unoccupied) applies only when there are no runners on base. "

Which should not hold water but who knows.

[Rich Ives]

16 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Unless they cite this rule:

"8.05(h)  The pitcher unnecessarily delays the game;

Rule 8.05(h) Comment: Rule 8.05(h) shall not apply when a warning is given pursuant to

Rule 8.02(c) (which prohibits intentional delay of a game by throwing to fielders not in an attempt to put a runner out). If a pitcher is ejected pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) for continuing to delay the game, the penalty in Rule 8.05(h) shall also apply. Rule 8.04 (which sets a time limit for a pitcher to deliver the ball when the bases are unoccupied) applies only when there are no runners on base. "

Which should not hold water but who knows.

They didn't. Not  in play here. The OP said:

"The umpires stated that the pitcher properly disengaged but nevertheless cannot throw to unoccupied first base."

[maven]

Winnable protest, as Ives states.

[BrianC14]

23 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Unless they cite this rule:

"8.05(h)  The pitcher unnecessarily delays the game;

Rule 8.05(h) Comment: Rule 8.05(h) shall not apply when a warning is given pursuant to

Rule 8.02(c) (which prohibits intentional delay of a game by throwing to fielders not in an attempt to put a runner out). If a pitcher is ejected pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) for continuing to delay the game, the penalty in Rule 8.05(h) shall also apply. Rule 8.04 (which sets a time limit for a pitcher to deliver the ball when the bases are unoccupied) applies only when there are no runners on base. "

Which should not hold water but who knows.

Where in that rule does it say that a balk shall be called and base (s) awarded? 

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, BrianC14 said:

Where in that rule does it say that a balk shall be called and base (s) awarded? 

8.05 is the balk rule. It's a balk unless a warning is given under 8.02.

[BrianC14]

1 minute ago, Rich Ives said:

8.05 is the balk rule. It's a balk unless a warning is given under 8.02.

Yes, my fault for not addressing the mixed in rules in that reply.  F1 is a fielder in the op.

[Jimurray]

38 minutes ago, BrianC14 said:

Yes, my fault for not addressing the mixed in rules in that reply.  F1 is a fielder in the op.

I'm not arguing the use of old 8.05(h) but I think pitcher is used generically in 8.05.

[BrianC14]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

I'm not arguing the use of old 8.05(h) but I think pitcher is used generically in 8.05.

I'm not arguing anything. 

[Guest olde yeller]

We won the protest.

Thanks for all your responses.  in addition to rules cites, I quoted the line, "an infielder cannot balk" in my submission to my league.

Thank you to whoever brought up a possible "delay of game" issue.  I mentioned that in my submission and then debunked it so as to  close a potential loophole.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

Actually, an infielder CAN balk.  F1 disengaged, but straddling the rubber (now technically an infielder) makes motions associated to his pitching motion, or takes that position astride the rubber without the ball.  FED 6-2-5 or OBR 6.02a

[Guest cjk]

On 6/26/2017 at 7:52 PM, FleasOf1000Camels said:

Actually, an infielder CAN balk.  F1 disengaged, but straddling the rubber (now technically an infielder) makes motions associated to his pitching motion, or takes that position astride the rubber without the ball.  FED 6-2-5 or OBR 6.02a

F1 can not straddle the rubber unless he has the ball, and then once he does, straddling the rubber is considered the same as engaged.

[Rich Ives]

16 minutes ago, Guest cjk said:

F1 can not straddle the rubber unless he has the ball, and then once he does, straddling the rubber is considered the same as engaged.

NO.

[ALStripes17]

straddling the rubber is considered the same as engaged.

Absolutely not!

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[Jimurray]

15 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

 

 

Absolutely not!

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We had a thread long ago where one poster did not know what straddle meant and thought it meant on the rubber. I thought we corrected him.

[ALStripes17]

We had a thread long ago where one poster did not know what straddle meant and thought it meant on the rubber. I thought we corrected him.

May need to liken it to the dating scene:

Straddling someone most certainly doesn't mean you're engaged to them... Same goes for the pitching rubber.

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