How many bases

[gymcoch]

Been doing LL for a few years now. Watching several of my son's middle school (60/90) games, I was confused when an overthrow from an infielder went out of play and R1 was awarded home. He was already around 2B when the throw was made. I thought it was clear cut that it's 2 bases from TOP on that, but was told by some friends who do big diamond ball, that at this level, it's umpire's judgement.

Does this mean runners are awarded bases based upon where the ump thought they could have made it to had the ball not gone out of play?

Thanks in advance!

[noumpere]

The general rule is the same at all levels -- 2 bases TOP, on the first play (not necessarily the first throw) by an infielder.  I wasn't there, so I can't say if it was the first play or not.

No general rules organization has a "umpire judgment" basis for determining bases on this type of play -- if it exists, it's a local rule.

[stkjock]

was it the first play from the infield or something else?

 

2 minutes ago, noumpere said:

The general rule is the same at all levels -- 2 bases TOP, on the first play (not necessarily the first throw) by an infielder.  I wasn't there, so I can't say if it was the first play or not.

No general rules organization has a "umpire judgment" basis for determining bases on this type of play -- if it exists, it's a local rule.

isn't rule 5.06 (b)(4)(5) possibly at work here as well?  OP says R1 had already rounded second.

Quote

APPROVED RULING: If all runners, including the batter-runner, have advanced at least one base when an  infielder makes a wild throw on the first play after the pitch, the award shall be governed by the position of the runners when the wild throw was made.

 

[Jimurray]

4 minutes ago, gymcoch said:

Been doing LL for a few years now. Watching several of my son's middle school (60/90) games, I was confused when an overthrow from an infielder went out of play and R1 was awarded home. He was already around 2B when the throw was made. I thought it was clear cut that it's 2 bases from TOP on that, but was told by some friends who do big diamond ball, that at this level, it's umpire's judgement.

Does this mean runners are awarded bases based upon where the ump thought they could have made it to had the ball not gone out of play?

Thanks in advance!

No, umpire judgement is required to decide if, on the first play by an infielder, the batter and all base runners already had advanced one base at TOT. Then the award would be from TOT. Not very likely normally. Big diamond, little diamond the rule is the same and your friends have not read and/or understood it.

[noumpere]

12 minutes ago, stkjock said:

isn't rule 5.06 (b)(4)(5) possibly at work here as well?  OP says R1 had already rounded second.

 

Yes -- if BR had also reached first at the time of the throw.  Then, it's two bases from TOT -- so R1 is awarded home and BR is awarded third. 

 

That didn't happen in the "play in my mind" so I forgot about it.

[gymcoch]

If ALL runners have advanced one base. So if R1 has rounded 2B almost to 3B, but BR had not yet reached 1B at TOT, R1 should only get third?

[noumpere]

1 minute ago, gymcoch said:

If ALL runners have advanced one base. So if R1 has rounded 2B almost to 3B, but BR had not yet reached 1B at TOT, R1 should only get third?

Yes, if it was the first play by an infielder.

[gymcoch]

Thanks, gang!

 

[stkjock]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

Yes -- if BR had also reached first at the time of the throw.  Then, it's two bases from TOT -- so R1 is awarded home and BR is awarded third. 

 

That didn't happen in the "play in my mind" so I forgot about it.

Right, your first view makes more sense after I read the OP and rule again.  Thanks NU

[Richvee]

Keep in mind a tag attempt by the infielder on a runner would be considered the 1st play.

Play: R1. GB to F4 near 2B. F4 fields, takes a step and reaches out to tag R1 on his way to 2B but misses him. before F4 throws to 1B to try and retire BR, R1 crosses 2B. F4 throws the ball over F3's head into DBT.

R1 awarded home, BR 2nd base if he had not reached 1B prior to F4's throw.