Did +POS make Aluminum Frames?

[BobUmp]

Hello Brothers, I bought a really old mask and pads because it had Bob Davidson's signature "NASCAR" style on the top pad, and I thought it would make a nice collectors item, and maybe even pull it out every once in awhile for an evening travel league game for fun... The vinyl coating is in bad shape, and planned to strip it and color it. I peeled off some around a weld and the weld looked like the welds on my diamond aluminum. I got a magnet, and sure enough, it is non magnetic.. it is also light enough, so if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck..... Anyhow, does anyone know if this a +POS AL frame with vinyl coating on it, or if there is such an animal?
Thanks in advance!
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[Stk004]

Pictures?

[BobUmp]

I am at work, so I will post some tonight. I will try to pry some more vinyl off the bars and get a close up as well. I do know it has flat bars for the horizontal view bars, just like the diamond. It also "feels" like solid bars, not hollow, just like the diamond.

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[BobUmp]

Ok got home at lunch.. First, as I received it, but after i picked at the flaking vinyl... Note that the sun shield by itself is worth about the same as what i paid for this rig..

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[BobUmp]

Here is my Diamond Ump-BL, upgraded with TW pads thanks to@Stk004



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[BobUmp]

Now the comparison of joints.. first the pluspos



And now the Diamond AL

Looks like same type of welds, same jointing process. The eye bars on both frames are flattened, and feel solid on both.
The pluspos rig's frame looks Mizuno-ish, so I am thinking Asian manufacturer? Did pluspos supply vinyl coated AL frames?

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[Stan W.]

I do not believe that is a +POS frame. Ive worn +POS a long time and don't remember the flat bars nor the angled lower bars. The pads are mismatched, certainly I had a +POS mask with a Brinkman upper pad, but that chin pad is sporting a newer generation +POS logo.

I'll have to defer to the experts but I'm suspect of the frame as +POS manufacture and fairly certain that the pads are mismatched generation +POS pads and all the while sporting a +POS sun visor.....     

Its still cool and I love +POS leather pads! I swapped back out my TW pads for my black +POS leather pads and my Honigs Navy doeskin pads. I sold both TW sets to U-E Members...

Get that refinished and you'll have a cool rig indeed..... 

[BobUmp]

The pads need some restiching and some TLC. I like to think I'm a do-it-yourselfer and like that challenge.. The top pad's face with Bob Davidson's signature is in great shape, and the fact that I got all of that plus the pluspos harness, the TG, the visor and a mask bag for 20 bucks, I'm in the black even if the frame is not worth getting coated! If not, my plan B is to paint it Aged Bronze, which is black with a hint of bronze, and use it until i break it!

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[BT_Blue]

My first thought was "man that looks like a diamond!" But just missing that second angled bar on the chin area. But the rest of it rings true as a Diamond. +POS might have gone to the same manufacturer as Diamond and asked not to have the second bar. Who knows. But first glance... that is what I got.

As for the frame. If you decide not to do it yourself. Contact Tony at Maskitsports.com. He can help you with banging it back out, redoing the welds, melting that stupid vinyl off, and making it just about any color you could want. And all for $35 plus shipping both ways. 

[BobUmp]

Ok I burnt vinyl off with my propane torch. Quick and easy. Here it is after prepping and sanding..

I note two things of concern..

First, its hard to see, but on the lower outer right and lower outer left bars, just above the throat guard bars, there is some sort of splice.. weird, nowhere else, but definitely planned and NOT affected by the heating and burning..

Second again hard to see, but the throat guard is ever so slightly off kilter-the left outer bar of the throat guard slightly shorter than the right... I doubled checked and it is NOT bent..

My conclusion from the above is it is definitely not as good quality as the diamond AL frames. I am guessing it is a cheaper design, and it looks so mizuno 129 ish, I am guessing it is asian that copied that type of design.

So my move is to not invest in a maskit makeover just yet. I painted it, and will run it out for a couple of months. If it survives a few good shots, awesome, I will spend a game fee for maskit, and be able to send my FM25 I picked up from[mention=4214]Stk004[/mention] to go navy for my school ball primary color.

Tomorrow I will post the after photos when the paint is dry..

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[JoHart10]

You could just chop the tg off if don't like the bend. 

[BobUmp]

If it survives, great idea for when i send it to maskit.. I use danglers on my masks anyways!

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[BobUmp]

The finished product. Chose dark charcoal, in honor of pluspos...

Here it is next to my all black FM25, to see the color difference


And here it is, rigged up for warm weather, sun facing fields, and maximum protection with tan TWs from@Stk004, +POS harness and visor. Added a Mizuno TG, since its Mizuno-like


It is unbelievably light. I will weigh it at work on Tuesday. I hope it survives!

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[BT_Blue]

3 hours ago, BobUmp said:

The finished product. Chose dark charcoal, in honor of pluspos...

Here it is next to my all black FM25, to see the color difference


And here it is, rigged up for warm weather, sun facing fields, and maximum protection with tan TWs from@Stk004, +POS harness and visor. Added a Mizuno TG, since its Mizuno-like


It is unbelievably light. I will weigh it at work on Tuesday. I hope it survives!

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Very nice. Looks just like how I had my Diamond. But with a Mizuno tg rather than a SSK Spyder that I had on mine.

Something to remember though.... the sun visor on the mask does nothing for us umpires since our hats block any shading properties the shield gives us. I wear mine because I like that it keeps the heat off the bill of my cap. But more so because when it rains I hate having water drip off the side of my bill of my hat.

[BobUmp]

I m hoping it keeps the heat off the bill and keep it from fading so quick

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[BT_Blue]

2 hours ago, BobUmp said:

I m hoping it keeps the heat off the bill and keep it from fading so quick

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That is nice as well. Only problem... couldn't that make the cap part of the hat lighter than the bill?

(I'm just having fun... not being serious.)

[BobUmp]

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[MadMax]

Hey @BobUmp... last things first, your work on that mask looks stupendous. What a way to rehab a beaten-up "old" mask.

Your removal of the vinyl lightens it considerably. The mask is likely from the 90's, when powdercoating was a treatment reserved for industries that could financially justify the volume and expense. Masks, with their low profit margins, were (and still are, in low-tier catchers masks) vinyl dipped in a limited range of colors. The mask is most likely hollow steel, and we can tell this from the two splice ferrels you uncovered. If it was solid steel wire, the two ends of that loop of wire would have been butted and welded at a joint. Because it is in-line, you'll notice they chose a non-critical location and used that ferrel as a sleeve so as to join the two ends. So too, they have to leave that joint for last because the gases from welding have to exhaust out the tube somewhere. All other tubes on the mask have exposed endpoints to them.

Being flat doesn't necessarily imply being aluminum. The All-Star FM25 and FM4000 are both hollow steel with All-Star's "I-Bar" construction, featuring flattened tubes of steel around the eyeport. True, Diamond went "all aluminum" in their iX3 line (of which the DFM-iX3-UMP is one), using cast aluminum for their masks. The silver ones are "naked" (which Diamond marketed as "titanium color", thereby suckering confusing a whole portion of the buying public) with a clear coat, while the black ones are using a special paint or are truly anodized black. Anodizing is best for aluminum and titanium, but is affordable only in large batches because of the amount of chemicals involved (acid baths). An aluminum mask may be vinyl-dipped to make it black "on the cheap", but those two splice ferrels indicate it isn't aluminum.

Hollow steel makes sense, as you would need to paint or dip it so as to keep it from corroding. The welds are pretty ugly, too, and likely done by hand, in a hurry. These fabricators were told that this mask was destined to be vinyl dipped anyway, and the finish quality of the welds themselves were not important.

The mask's planform is really appealing, though. It's got crimps and bends in it in places that you don't expect them to be. It lacks ear guard struts, and you'll notice that the geometry of the tubes is fairly strategic... someone thought this one out when designing it. The bullring and the wicket are both squared as opposed to arcs. This re-appears in a Japanese mask, and also (and this is an important part of figuring this out) in a magnesium alloy mask by +POS and Champro around 5-6 years ago. If I would venture a guess, this is indeed a limited run +POS mask, likely designed by Dan's father himself (who founded +POS), and commissioned to be built here or in China.

 

[BT_Blue]

1 hour ago, MadMax said:

Hey @BobUmp...

The silver ones are "naked" (which Diamond marketed as "titanium color", thereby suckering confusing a whole portion of the buying public)

One of the things I really enjoyed when my Diamond was still silver and I had the two tone pads that originally came with the Wilson TI on them.

[BobUmp]

Sweet, thanks for the info! Your explanation jibes with all the facts/clues.. I need to think hard if I want to use this as a main warm weather rig. It is so light, that Im afraid a higher velocity blow would fell this steel soldier.. My next project is bringing back to life the Bob Davidson pads.. The combo would make a sweet collectors item, BUT I like using my gear, not putting it on a shelf.. I would like to use it until I break or bend it, then clean it up/unbend and take it out of service. Thanks a lot for the info. Once I get the +POS leathers done, I will get them in the lineup occasionally.. And BTW, on recommendation from you@MadMax and others on this forum, I am currently training a Schutt XV and will change the harness, hopefully way before it gets warm up here in NY..

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[MadMax]

26 minutes ago, BobUmp said:

 And BTW, on recommendation from you@MadMax and others on this forum, I am currently training a Schutt XV and will change the harness, hopefully way before it gets warm up here in NY..

Oh sure, @BT_Blue put you up to this, didn't he?! Now I'm really under the gun to produce a thorough and top-quality video tutorial!!

[BobUmp]

@BT_Blue I think I tracked your rig down in the mask porn thread.. Thats a sweet looking mask!

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[Stan W.]

well done rehab on the mask !!........looks amazing.....and it would be great if it is a +POS prototype. we have such great resources available here on this site.

[BT_Blue]

3 hours ago, BobUmp said:

@BT_Blue I think I tracked your rig down in the mask porn thread.. Thats a sweet looking mask!

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Thanks. There, I think, is two versions of my mask. One with a Spyder tg a day TW pads. And one with a Zett tg and Wilson Memory foam pads.

[BobUmp]

I tracked down the version with the tan TWs and the Spyder

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