Discussion of 2016 AL and NL Championship Series

[Lindsay]

Discussion for the postseason's American and National League Championship Series is now open. Notes include home plate umpire performance according to pitch f/x and UEFL Rules 6-2-b-a (horizontal bound, "Kulpa Rule") and 6-2-b-b (vertical strike zone, "Miller Rule"). Plays include significant...

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[stkjock]

Laz giving a lot of leeway tonight. 

[Larry in TN]

Gotta love an 8th inning, tie-breaking, 2-out, 0-2, pinch-hit, game-winning, grand slam!

Some really amazing defensive plays in that game...

[udbrky]

Been another great postseason! I may be biased, because I've been a Cubs fan since I was 4, but the rest of the games have been fun too

[UmpJeff]

There is NOTHING like October baseball!!

[stkjock]

5 minutes ago, UmpJeff said:

There is NOTHING like October baseball!!

November baseball???

 

[UmpJeff]

Just now, stkjock said:

November baseball???

 

Yeah...that, too!

[dumbdumb]

What's the deal with the double play ball at 2nd base while holding the ball on the ground??

Forget about the foot or knee touching the base.

What is it when the player has his fingers around the ball but the ball is clearly touching the ground at the same time (like you are trying to dirty up the ball).

When is control actually established?

What if you just have the ball touching your palm (like holding a basketball against a wall) but do not have your fingers around the ball?

If the runner gets to the base while the ball is still touching the ground do we have an out?

Isn't this just like snow cone-ing a fly ball you run in for at the shoe tops and 1/2 the ball is in the glove but the snow cone part out of the glove is touching the ground at the same time?

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v1207210383/alcs-gm3-statcast-measures-lindors-arm-on-dp/?affiliateId=clubMEGAMENU

[JSam21]

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 8:35 PM, dumbdumb said:

What's the deal with the double play ball at 2nd base while holding the ball on the ground??

Forget about the foot or knee touching the base.

What is it when the player has his fingers around the ball but the ball is clearly touching the ground at the same time (like you are trying to dirty up the ball).

When is control actually established?

What if you just have the ball touching your palm (like holding a basketball against a wall) but do not have your fingers around the ball?

If the runner gets to the base while the ball is still touching the ground do we have an out?

Isn't this just like snow cone-ing a fly ball you run in for at the shoe tops and 1/2 the ball is in the glove but the snow cone part out of the glove is touching the ground at the same time?

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v1207210383/alcs-gm3-statcast-measures-lindors-arm-on-dp/?affiliateId=clubMEGAMENU

Secure possession while in contact with the base is all that we are looking for on a play like this. It is not like a fly ball that is sno-coned. Unlike the fly ball, secure possession with the bare hand doesn't require the ball to not be touching the ground because it can be easily determined just by looking at it. It is also completely different than the ball on the ground and the glove over the top of it.

Just the palm touching the ball without the fingers around it, is not possession. Think of it this way... If you were to not change the grip and the fielder would lift their hand would the ball come up with the hand? If yes, you have possession. If not, you do not have possession. It is kind of like porn... you will know it when you see it.

[BT_Blue]

@dumbdumb, I feel this is more of a question for the NFL to be able to give a good answer. 

[dumbdumb]

12 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

@dumbdumb, I feel this is more of a question for the NFL to be able to give a good answer. 

that's right, stir that pot.

Go Muncie Flyers

I was just trying to make sure that even though the ball was touching the ground at the same time the fielder had control with his fingers wrapped around the rest of the ball that was not on the ground, and the runner clearly was on the bag for a while before the fielder finally decided to raise the ball off the ground, that the runner was still out.

I wanted to make sure touching the ground with the ball did not make the runner safe, nor finally lifting the ball in the air a while after the runner touched the base did not make the runner safe either.

 

[BT_Blue]

Sorry, think it kind of caught me by surprise that you are asking this question.

[dumbdumb]

On 10/22/2016 at 3:59 AM, BT_Blue said:

Sorry, think it kind of caught me by surprise that you are asking this question.

Knowledge of a rule and knowledge about a rule are 2 different things.

I just want to make sure that some of the newer guys get more than just a yes/no answer, from the guys on here with "good communication skills and that write clearly and distinctly without making a novel/brevity of the situation". I have clearly shown that my skills in this area are completely and utterly off the charts "horse manure" in this area in all phases and no doubt the NOVEL/BREVITY area. My 'exact knowledge' versus 'overview' skills of rules/mechanics/interpretations, situation handling are all very SUSPECT, unfortunately.

Some new guys really would like to be, "the best they can be", but do not have the "time"/or "financial resources" to get the advanced and super advanced training and that is what I sometimes try and get at with the guys on this site that really know the rules, the interpretations, the mechanics, and the insight they can provide.

Yes, I had the knowledge of this situation and that old guy that passed away that had been to the school many years ago brought this one up. However, rules, mechanics, interpretations, handling situations all change over the years and sometimes I just want to make sure whether certain things are the same, or have changed from what this old guy mentioned.

Also, of course there may be differences in rules/interpretations/situation handling etc, etc for all the different levels out there.

I knew this was MLB, and I just wanted to make sure what the old guy said, still holds and it did, but also to help the younger guys who would be playing under OBR rules, or guys playing under other rules that had not thought of this situation could go ask their local interpreter about this play.

And no, I am not trying to ''solicit a pity party response'' to my lack of skills, just stating that I know how rotten they are.

[BT_Blue]

Makes total sense. It just still caught me by surprise as I look to your posts for rules and interpretations on strange plays like this.

But yes, as long as he would have, what would be described as, possession of the ball if it wasn't on the ground. Then yes he would be consider to have firm possession of the ball for the purpose of the play.

At least that is how I understand it all.