Indicators

[catoblue]

OK... I notched mine - and it works like a charm!!! I don't have to look at all.

As for on the bases - I only do LL, and we like the BU to be a backup for the PU, just because of how crazy some of the plays get. I've gotten better about thumbing the wheel while moving to cover a steal on a passed ball, but still miss it from time to time.

In our pregame, we usually agree on a signal to check the count, but generally if the PU doesn't signal and gives the count and the BU has something different, the BU changes his count to match PU's count. the momies keeping score don't know how to use the little boxes in the score book to track balls and strikes, so whatever we have is the official count - and as long as we have the same count, who's to say different.

[JohnnySpot]

My two cents, it is a clear sign of an amateur to have an indicator on the bases, it is not your job to manage the balls and strikes. I guarantee you will miss a balk at some point or a pickoff because your face was stuck where it didnt belong in the first place. At pro school it is a huge NO-NO and a sign of discrespect to your plate partner, at any high level game have you ever seen an umpire on the bases with an indicator? It is a poor mechanic I think some of us adopted from softball, where there are no leads or pick offs or balks. No one I have ever worked with in 14 years has used an indicator in my plate game, if he brings one out it is in his pocket immediatly after a good dose of my feelings on the matter. Ever seen am MLB ump with an indicator on the bases? you may see them looking down but its at a stop watch for commercial time between innings, or at a beeper with a red light that TV uses to indicate they are ready to go. I tell anyone using one "do you want to improve your base umpiring and be the best you can be, with a new level of concentration" most guys say yes, I then tell them "stick that indicator where the sun dont shine and work the bases" Goes over pretty well, at least I make my point. At my home association no issues at all due to our training and pro influence, but when I travel to do tournaments in Fla. or up in Coooperstown I see it as a crutch and a sign you dont trust the plate man. If you use one try a game without it and concentrate on the pitcher, runners or think of your next possible play and your mechanics movements, I guarantee you will vastly improve your base game. Not having to move that thing and stick your face in it will free you up to be a better base man and partner. I'm a bit firm on this matter as you can tell but I speak from experience and training, get the indicator off the baeses!

Amen

Said about as well as it can be

[Umpire in Chief]

Amen

Said about as well as it can be

Feel free to nominate...

[dawg-man]

Please do not take this the wrong way because it is not meant to hurt anyone.It seems when I work baseball games with baseball umpires they do not use an indicator on the bases. It is when you have an umpire who does alot of softball that seem to bring it with them. They are used to carrying it on the field with them. If I partner asks if I mind him taking it I always say yes I do and they leave it in the car. This issue like alot of others can be handled with a little communication.

[treedog24]

I have only one issue with keeping the count. I don't care if the BU keeps the count mentally or with an indicator or not at all.

However, if the PU calls out a different count for any reason than what the BU has, as BU, DO NOT CALL "TIME" TO DISCUSS THE COUNT WITH THE PU!!!!!!!

I had one do that the other night. I called 2-0 when I had 3-0 on the indicator. The batter questioned it and before I could look at my indicator to verify, BU called "Time" and started jogging toward me. I had no clue what was going on. I didn't know if he saw something behind me that I didn't see.

He comes in and tells me where the pitches were and that the count was 3-0. I'm sitting here thinking "You called time for that. Stay the he!! away from me for the rest of the game." Wasting my time with something which is not his area to think about.

So, keep track any way you want. Just don't overstep your bounds and responsibility. BU responsibility does not include discussing the count with the PU. If he asks what the count is by signaling, then just signal it back. Do not call "Time" to go and talk to him about it. Wasting time for something which would have taken 1 second to flash the count to him.

Agreed, it is the PU job to keep the count and he is the one that will ask for help. The BU is more likely to lose the count than the PU (steals, falling alseep during a walk-a-thon,)

[mstaylor]

I don't think it is a softball/baseball thing at all. It's a comfort level for the BU. I don't care if he does or doesn't, I do, always have and will continue. In most games there isn't a lot going on on the bases so I might as well keep the count. I NEVER show the count unless I have something different. If the PU feels he is right, I change mine.

[catoblue]

Come on now, stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel about dem indimicaters on da bazes! LOL!!!!

In all seriousness, though, for upper levels of play, especially when there are designated scorekeepers (who know how to note balls & strikes in the book) and scoreboards that everyone can see, I'd have to agree that there really is no reason at all to carry an indicator on the bases, and it probably shouldn't be done.

Me, I only call LL games, no scoreboards, mom's keeping the score books, and lots of crazy plays that often stop play. PU's are human, and on a crazy play at HP, it's easy to forget to click the wheel (guilty!) - and we KNOW that we can't count on the mom's keeping score to have the count right in the book. That is reason enough that our LL STRONGLY recommends that on the occasions where we can actually get someone to volunteer to do the bases, they carry an indicator as a back-up to the PU.

Now, back to the OP - Thanks for the tip. While I don't look at my indicator very often, not having to look at all because of the notching idea, is something I plan to try this year. I think I'll do like one of the other guys said, and use games on TV to get used to it. Thanks Mike!

To reiterate - no indicator on the bases sits fine with me at upper levels of play, but in the chaos that is rural-community LL baseball, where every other pitch is a passed ball and every other passed ball usually has a R3 headed home, I LIKE having the base guy keep a back-up of the count, because I know that at some point during the game (or even multiple points), I'm gonna forget to turn the wheel. I also know that I don't have a scoreboard or even a score book that I can check to get myself back on track - and if I can prevent a S*#@storm by checking with my partner, I figure I've done myself and my partner a favor.

Now if I were doing a "big-boy" game, sure, I'd be fine with no indiclickalater on the bases, in fact, I'd prefer to not have one on the bases. Higher level ball is much less chaotic simply because the coordination and skills are better than what you get with kids that 12 and under.

[willv28]

I find in part it helps keeps my head focused, especially when there are no batted balls or any other action for a while. It also has helped my partner on more than one occasion this season. Myself once.

[bassfam11]

I always use one on the bases. I never show it unless asked by my partner. What we do is, when the PU gives the count and BU agrees, give a slight head nod of approval, if BU does not agree or is unsure do nothing.

[kylejt]

A lot depends on the situation. Four man crew, and a good scoreboard operator, no need. Iffy operator, U2 might have one. Two man, I might roll with one. Rookie PU, again I might have one.

Do I flash the count? Not any more. I did when I was the OOO, and felt the need to do something all the time, but those days are (thankfully) long gone. I can read when then PU is questioning his own indicator, like after getting klonked, or a pass ball. I'll have it as he looks for me. Then he'll look at me like, "How did you know?"

Is there anything worse than a four man LL crew, all clicking in unison? Well, perhaps all of them writing down something on a little notepad in between innings is more dorky, but it's right up there.

I'm a local LL UIC, and teach a TON of kids. I'll yell from the balcony of our park, "HEY, KEEP IT IN YOUR POCKET!" to the young BUs who constantly gaze at their clickers. It usually gets a chuckle from the unknowing parents.