Everyone Tricked Me But It Was Still My Fault... What To Do?

[Radie 88]

This one required so many things to go wrong that I can't imagine it happening very often...

Calling a LL Majors game by myself (scheduling mishap by the assigner)... AT is at bat and down by 1 with a R3... The inning had already seen a weird situation when the coach removed his best F1 with a 3-2 count to keep him eligible for their next game (despite me assuring him that he can finish the AB and still be elligible). It was already a long inning and I suppose this caused a bit of confusion for everyone (as you'll soon see)

That batter was eventually walked... Now it's R3 and R1... Next batter hits a line drive to F1, who makes a nice stab and throws to F3 for the double play... This is where it all went to hell...

The HT left the field and the AT started to take the field.. I look down at my indicator and have that double play as the only 2 outs of the inning. But both teams are heading on/off the field... I figure there is no way that they are all wrong and I am the only one on the field that is right, so I assume I just forgot to click my indicator on a previous out...

I step out to check the ball on the mound, now completely surrounded by the AT taking their positions, at which point the AT coach realizes that there was only 2 outs. He comes out to talk to me and while doing so, instructed the kid that was the R3 to go and stand on the plate... we confer with the HT teams book and sure enough.. only 2 outs.. But the AT wants the run to count. 

I look at the kid standing on the plate and he is holding his glove with no helmet or hat on. I rule that even though it's on the defense (HT) to know how many outs there were, the AT still took the field and that since the R3 had no helmet and WAS HOLDING HIS GLOVE, that he must have returned to the dugout, thereby giving up his chance to score. 

I really wasn't sure what to do. After conferring with both coaches, I returned the HT to the field and the R3 back to 3rd. The AT coach was livid and kept making a big deal about it. He's one of our "problem coaches" so I didn't let it get to me, but I'm still pretty fuzzy on the correct call...

After the game I was discussing it very nicely with an unbiased spectator who brought up that the AT coaches whole argument was that it was still a live ball even if the HT leaves the field and the AT takes the field. I wasn't sure how that works, because I know there is no "automatic time out", but I said that if it was still a live ball then the R3 should be out for entering the dugout and the HT shouldn't have gone back out to the field.

 

Any and all comments are welcomed to help me sort this out. I'm not sure that I got the call right, but I think I made the "fairest" call I could make, given that it is LL. 

[JSam21]

Both the offense and defense were put at a disadvantage in this situation. The only way to fairly rectify this situation is to put the runner back on 3rd and re-start the inning with 2 outs.

[noumpere]

Your two choices are (a) put everyone back or (b) call R3 out for abandonment.  Remind the "livid" AT coach of those two choices.  And, no matter what he thinks of the call or what you did, deal with his "lividness."

 

(Heck, if you wanted to really get him, just ask him "so you want me to enforce the literal rule even when both teams were confused?"  If he says "yes" call out his runner.  Then eject him (you'll need to).  And, no, I don't really suggest this at the LL level -- or really any level.)

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

Your two choices are (a) put everyone back or (b) call R3 out for abandonment.  Remind the "livid" AT coach of those two choices.  And, no matter what he thinks of the call or what you did, deal with his "lividness."

 

(Heck, if you wanted to really get him, just ask him "so you want me to enforce the literal rule even when both teams were confused?"  If he says "yes" call out his runner.  Then eject him (you'll need to).  And, no, I don't really suggest this at the LL level -- or really any level.)

Let's see...enforce a rule and eliminate an impediment to baseball enjoyment? I'd do that.

[Sut'n Blue]

 

I don't know what size diamond LL majors plays on but if they're old enough to be playing on a ninety foot field, I'm calling R3 out for abandonment (not sure what to do about the assumption that R3 went into the dugout as it's possible someone brought his or her gear out to him or her, that being said, removing your helmet and putting on your hat and glove seems like abandonment to me). On a smaller field R3 returns and we play to the third out.

[stkjock]

46/60 for LL majors 

[ricka56]

I am under no obligation to fix this. If the defense leaves the field, R3 is free to score. If R3 leaves the field, then abandonment rules apply. For LL, I'd reset this so no one is disadvantaged. But if AT HC prick is trying to pull a fast one. I'd go with the abandonment and see if he asks to be EJ'd.

[Kevin_K]

10 hours ago, ricka56 said:

I am under no obligation to fix this. If the defense leaves the field, R3 is free to score. If R3 leaves the field, then abandonment rules apply. For LL, I'd reset this so no one is disadvantaged. But if AT HC prick is trying to pull a fast one. I'd go with the abandonment and see if he asks to be EJ'd.

I'd be willing to bet that he demands it.

[Rich Ives]

It's 12U.  Put everyone back and continue from there. There's a time to be a stickler. This isn't one.

[MichaelG]

So I had this happen. At this level, when everyone thinks there are three outs and you have 2 assuming there is no play happening I would call time.  It ends the abandonment vs. scoring after folks left the field stuff as you killed it.

Note I would never call time if the OC or R3 was remotely aware of what was happening and trying to score, or if the defense was trying to make a play on the runner as they were abandoning.

PS: I am a long time lurker on this board and first time poster.

[Mudisfun]

Dodgers and Nationals game the other night F4 for the Nationals made an easy play to F3 and kept on jogging to the dugout... He got a good ribbing from his team for not knowing the situation... happens to the pros as well.