Fed RLI

[ricka56]

In a Fed game, a quality throw is not required for RLI when F2's  throws is interfered with by BR running in fair territory. But what about an uncaught 3K that goes behind F2, where the throw to 1B is coming from the foul side of the 1BL that hits BR running in fair territory ?  In OBR, I wouldn't call RLI when BR is giving F2 a clear path to throw to 1B that he isn't required to give. But with Fed's "quality of throw" not a criteria, I am not sure about this play (that I saw in a HS playoff game Thursday). Is BR still required to stay in the running lane when the throw is coming from that side of the foul line ?

 

[noumpere]

What you describe is NOT RLI in FED.  There's a specific case play / annual interp on this (it's either exactly your play, or the similar where the throw comes from fair, and the runner is in foul territory).

 

I don't know that I'll have time to find it tonight.

Well, here's one such interp:

 

SITUATION 19: B1 bunts and F2 fields the ball in fair territory in front of home plate. B1 is running in foul territory when F2, in fair territory, throws errantly and hits B1 in the back. B1 continues running and touches first base. RULING: The play stands. F2 made an errant throw. Although B1 was not in the running lane, his position did not interfere with F2’s throw. (8-4-1g Exception)

 

The subsequent play shows what FED means by "a quality throw is not required" -- a phrase that gets way overplayed / mis-interpreted:

SITUATION 20: As B1 bunts, F2 fields the ball in front of home plate in fair ground. B1 is running in fair ground as he nears first base. F2 realizes he does not have a line of sight to F3 and tries to lob the ball over B1. F3 leaps but cannot catch the ball. RULING: B1 is out for interference. Although F2 made an errant throw, B1 is guilty of interference by being out of the 3-foot running lane. (8-4-1g)

 

Edited June 8, 2015 by noumpere

[jpperez14]

SITUATION 19: B1 bunts and F2 fields the ball in fair territory in front of home plate. B1 is running in foul territory when F2, in fair territory, throws errantly and hits B1 in the back. B1 continues running and touches first base. RULING: The play stands. F2 made an errant throw. Although B1 was not in the running lane, his position did not interfere with F2’s throw. (8-4-1g Exception)

 

 

​If B1 is running in foul territory, wouldn't he be in the runner's lane unless it means on the right hand side of the runners lane?

[maven]

B1 was on the foul side and outside the running lane. Another poorly worded FED case play.

[jpperez14]

In a Fed game, a quality throw is not required for RLI when F2's  throws is interfered with by BR running in fair territory. But what about an uncaught 3K that goes behind F2, where the throw to 1B is coming from the foul side of the 1BL that hits BR running in fair territory ?  In OBR, I wouldn't call RLI when BR is giving F2 a clear path to throw to 1B that he isn't required to give. But with Fed's "quality of throw" not a criteria, I am not sure about this play (that I saw in a HS playoff game Thursday). Is BR still required to stay in the running lane when the throw is coming from that side of the foul line ?

 

​I am not 100% familiar with FED rules, but in OBR I've seen in mlb games where drop 3rd strike gets behind the F2, he picks it up stands in front of home plate and drills B1 in the back while he is in fair territory and they ruled RLI.
When I spoke with and showed one of my good friends that's a 7+ yr vet with the Texas HS Chapter, I asked him about it even though the ball was behind him, he said that he has to stay within the runner's lane because even running to first, the runners lane is 3 ft from the foul line and to the right. Even with the throw from the catcher in foul territory, the catcher can still have a way to throw to the F3, with F3 on the foul side of the bag.

[ricka56]

What you describe is NOT RLI in FED.  There's a specific case play / annual interp on this (it's either exactly your play, or the similar where the throw comes from fair, and the runner is in foul territory).

SITUATION 19: B1 bunts and F2 fields the ball in fair territory in front of home plate. B1 is running in foul territory when F2, in fair territory, throws errantly and hits B1 in the back. B1 continues running and touches first base. RULING: The play stands. F2 made an errant throw. Although B1 was not in the running lane, his position did not interfere with F2’s throw. (8-4-1g Exception)

The subsequent play shows what FED means by "a quality throw is not required" -- a phrase that gets way overplayed / mis-interpreted:

SITUATION 20: As B1 bunts, F2 fields the ball in front of home plate in fair ground. B1 is running in fair ground as he nears first base. F2 realizes he does not have a line of sight to F3 and tries to lob the ball over B1. F3 leaps but cannot catch the ball. RULING: B1 is out for interference. Although F2 made an errant throw, B1 is guilty of interference by being out of the 3-foot running lane. (8-4-1g)

​I have Fed interps from 2009-2015 but I can not find the interp referenced here. Can you tell me where these interps are from...TIA.

Tomorrow, I'm working with one of the guys that was on the crew that had this play. I agree that this should not be have been RLI. Originally, PU did not call RLI. DHC talked PU into getting help, U1 talked PU into RLI. OHC goes nuts...but that's another story.

[umpstu]

To me it depends on where in foul territory F2 is when he makes the throw.  Suppose he is 1st baseline extended and says "inside" and the runner then veers into fair territory? I'd get that.  Plus, what if the catcher bounces the throw and it hits the runner?

[BuckeyeMike]

I was under the impression that RLI was not to be considered on a passed ball.   Is that correct, in either theory or practice?    

With a bunt, the BR knows the general area from which the throw is coming and is protected from an INT call by being in the lane.   On a passed ball, the BR has no clue from where it's being thrown. 

[Cav]

I was under the impression that RLI was not to be considered on a passed ball.   Is that correct, in either theory or practice?    

​It is my caffeinated opinion that there is no rule concession on a passed ball.   

NFHS: 8-4-1 The batter-runner is out when: g. he runs outside the three-foot running lane (last half of the distance from home plate to first base), while the ball is being fielded or thrown to first base; 1. This infraction is ignored if it is to avoid a fielder who is attempting to field the batted ball or if the act does not interfere with a fielder or a throw.  [my emphasis]

[noumpere]

​I am not 100% familiar with FED rules, but in OBR I've seen in mlb games where drop 3rd strike gets behind the F2, he picks it up stands in front of home plate and drills B1 in the back while he is in fair territory and they ruled RLI.
 

​Substantially the same, with the exception of the "quality throw" requirement.

 

So, if F2 is "just a little" in foul, and BR is "just a little" in fair, BR could still be in the line of the throw -- because F3 is usually in fair.  So, get an out.

 

But in the FED case play, the catcher had a clear line to first, but throw it off that line and hit the BR.  There's no way to say that BR "caused" the poor throw.  So, the "quality throw" exception doesn't come into play, and the runner is safe.  The runner would be safe in OBR, too.

 

​I have Fed interps from 2009-2015 but I can not find the interp referenced here. Can you tell me where these interps are from...TIA.

 

2004, iirc​

  Plus, what if the catcher bounces the throw and it hits the runner?

Depends (a little) on the code, and the level and how much it's bounced.  At the college and pro levels, a bounced throw can still be a "quality" throw -- get the out.  In FED, it doesn't matter -- get the out.​

[ricka56]

​2004, iirc​

Thanks for the citation. ​I searched some more and found other resources. I have combined all of the NFHS Rule changes, points of emphasis and interpretations from 1999-2015 into one PDF document.

[Rich Ives]

​I am not 100% familiar with FED rules, but in OBR I've seen in mlb games where drop 3rd strike gets behind the F2, he picks it up stands in front of home plate and drills B1 in the back while he is in fair territory and they ruled RLI.
When I spoke with and showed one of my good friends that's a 7+ yr vet with the Texas HS Chapter, I asked him about it even though the ball was behind him, he said that he has to stay within the runner's lane because even running to first, the runners lane is 3 ft from the foul line and to the right. Even with the throw from the catcher in foul territory, the catcher can still have a way to throw to the F3, with F3 on the foul side of the bag.

​Very rarely happens. Most catchers are good enough to find a clear throwing lane and the player covering 1B knows how to set up to receive the throw.

[roothog66]

"SITUATION 19: Caught in a rundown between home and third, R2 is returning to third base

when the catcher throws the ball to the third baseman who is covering the base. The third

baseman does not catch the ball, which is caught by the shortstop who is backing up the play

behind third base. Everyone else, including the third baseman, believes the third baseman has

the ball when he tags R2 as he slides back into third base. The third baseman shows the umpire

an empty glove and is confused as R2 safely slides into third base. The offensive head coach

wants the umpire to declare a fake tag and award R2 home. RULING: This is not a fake tag.

The third baseman simply did not catch the ball. (2-22-2)"

Off topic, but from the above pdf. Not sure how this one happens.