Both coaches unhappy but rule applied correctly

[OHUMP]

Home team batting R1 1 out I am on the bases.  Runner stealing on the pitch and ground ball hit to shortstop side of 2B.  Shortstop fields and we have a race to 2nd.  R1 just beats SS to bag then short stop throws to 1st.  Overthrow into dugout.  I award R1 home and batter runner 2nd.  Home coach wants B/R on 3rd since R1 was awarded home and Visitors/Defensive coach wants R1 on 3rd B/R on 2nd.  I explained to both that since R1 achieved 2nd before throw it was 2 bases time of throw.  He gets home.  B/R had not reached 1st yet so 2 bases he gets second.  Neither agreed but that is life.

[jkumpire]

Home team batting R1 1 out I am on the bases.  Runner stealing on the pitch and ground ball hit to shortstop side of 2B.  Shortstop fields and we have a race to 2nd.  R1 just beats SS to bag then short stop throws to 1st.  Overthrow into dugout.  I award R1 home and batter runner 2nd.  Home coach wants B/R on 3rd since R1 was awarded home and Visitors/Defensive coach wants R1 on 3rd B/R on 2nd.  I explained to both that since R1 achieved 2nd before throw it was 2 bases time of throw.  He gets home.  B/R had not reached 1st yet so 2 bases he gets second.  Neither agreed but that is life.

the throw is not the 1st play by the infielder. good job!

[stl_ump]

So the first play was attempting the out at 2nd?

[maven]

So the first play was attempting the out at 2nd?

​Right, and it requires more than just F6 moving toward the base. Since he actually tagged the base (too late, as it turned out), that counts as the first play. Since the throw to 1B was not the first play by an infielder, the award shifts to TOT.

[noumpere]

​Right, and it requires more than just F6 moving toward the base. Since he actually tagged the base (too late, as it turned out), that counts as the first play. Since the throw to 1B was not the first play by an infielder, the award shifts to TOT.

​It requires a legitimate attempt to put out the runner, but it doesn't actually require F6 to touch the base, imo.

[maven]

​It requires a legitimate attempt to put out the runner, but it doesn't actually require F6 to touch the base, imo.

Agreed: so, let's distinguish 2 cases where F6 does not touch the base.

1. F6 fields the ball, takes a step or 2 toward 2B, decides to throw to 1B: NOT a play, the throw is the first play by an infielder.

2. F6 fields the ball, runs to 2B, a step from the base sees that the runner beat him, decides to throw to 1B without touching 2B: this IS a play, the throw is not the first play by an infielder.

There will be gray area: when in doubt, it is NOT a play.

[Mudder]

Agreed: so, let's distinguish 2 cases where F6 does not touch the base.

1. F6 fields the ball, takes a step or 2 toward 2B, decides to throw to 1B: NOT a play, the throw is the first play by an infielder.

2. F6 fields the ball, runs to 2B, a step from the base sees that the runner beat him, decides to throw to 1B without touching 2B: this IS a play, the throw is not the first play by an infielder.

There will be gray area: when in doubt, it is NOT a play.

​Just to clarify,  the whole 1st play, 2nd play thing by an infielder is irrelevant if at the TOT by the infileder that goes OOP all runners, including BR, have advanced to the next base.  So in the OP if when the SS makes the throw the BR had already reached 1B (won't usually happen I know), then BR gets 3B (2 bases TOT), in this case you would ignore the 1st play, 2nd play thing, correct?

[noumpere]

​Just to clarify,  the whole 1st play, 2nd play thing by an infielder is irrelevant if at the TOT by the infileder that goes OOP all runners, including BR, have advanced to the next base.  So in the OP if when the SS makes the throw the BR had already reached 1B (won't usually happen I know), then BR gets 3B (2 bases TOT), in this case you would ignore the 1st play, 2nd play thing, correct?

​Correct.

[maven]

​Just to clarify,  the whole 1st play, 2nd play thing by an infielder is irrelevant if at the TOT by the infileder that goes OOP all runners, including BR, have advanced to the next base.  So in the OP if when the SS makes the throw the BR had already reached 1B (won't usually happen I know), then BR gets 3B (2 bases TOT), in this case you would ignore the 1st play, 2nd play thing, correct?

​Correct, but as you note, that won't usually happen. I'd go with TOT (which will score R1) only if I was 100% positive the throw was released well after the BR touched 1B.

[johnnyg08]

From PBUC.  What is a play?  As others have said (I think) sometimes the award TOP or TOT will be the same.