Dropped Bat Contacts Dropped 3K

[zoops]

Fed rules.

 

RH batter swings and misses at a pitch in the dirt for strike 3.  Catcher blocks it into the front of the LH batter's box.  Batter starts to run to 1st and drops his bat normally as he does so, which contacts the ball and changes its direction enough that the catcher is not able to gather it in time to make a play at first.  I ruled that this was "nothing" due to the fact that the batter did not intentionally try to make contact with the ball.  Can't find an exact rule or case play for it, but did find 7-3-6: "...If a whole bat is thrown and interferes with a defensive player attempting a play, interference will be called."

 

What say you?

[Mudisfun]

Was the batter acting like a batter and doing what he should be doing in this scenario? If he just dropped his bat I am going to find it hard to penalize him for doing what he should be doing and rewarding the defense for a pitch in the dirt.

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[ElkOil]

I'm always wrong about these things, but not one to be deterred by my own stupidity, here goes nothing.

 

My interpretation would be that the bat did not interfere with the player, it merely struck the ball.  Yes by doing so, the player wan't able to make the play, but the bat didn't interfere with him, per se.

 

That's what I'm going with on this.  I'm sure I'll be shown otherwise by some smart cookie citing a case play, but I would have called it the way you did. 

[NovaScotiaBlue]

If you are playing OBR,  I've got an out here. I don't work FED so I can comment on that rule set. 

MLB Rules 6.05 (H) A better is OUT when 
(h) After hitting or bunting a fair ball, his bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory. The ball is dead and no runners may advance. If the batter-runner drops his bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play.

So we don't have a hit or bunted ball BUUUUT...This is further down in the notes below the rule 

If a whole bat is thrown into fair or foul territory and interferes with a defensive player attempting to make a play, interference shall be called, whether intentional or not. 

 

[VAUmp]

Was the batter acting like a batter and doing what he should be doing in this scenario? If he just dropped his bat I am going to find it hard to penalize him for doing what he should be doing and rewarding the defense for a pitch in the dirt.

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So you're not willing to reward the defense for a pitch in the dirt, but you'll reward the offense for swinging at a pitch in the dirt???

[ALStripes17]

If you are playing OBR, I've got an out here. I don't work FED so I can comment on that rule set.

MLB Rules 6.05 (H) A better is OUT when

(h) After hitting or bunting a fair ball, his bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory. The ball is dead and no runners may advance. If the batter-runner drops his bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play.

So we don't have a hit or bunted ball BUUUUT...This is further down in the notes below the rule

If a whole bat is thrown into fair or foul territory and interferes with a defensive player attempting to make a play, interference shall be called, whether intentional or not.

Not the purpose of that rule.

Batter was doing what he was supposed to do. Similar to accidentally kicking or stepping on the ball while headed to 1B. The defense had its chance to field the pitch cleanly.

Intent is required here.

[jkumpire]

The closest situation in the case book is 8-4-1-i:

 

8.4.1 SITUATION I:

B1 swings and misses a pitch for strike three. The ball ricochets from F2's mitt and rolls several feet down the first-base line in fair territory. As F2 goes for the ball, B1 accidently kicks or steps on the ball.

RULING: If, in the judgment of the umpire, B1 did not intentionally interfere, then the ball remains alive and the play stands.

 

Yes I know it has nothing to do with a bat, but the key in the rule in the intent of the batter. If the batter did not deliberately use the bat to interferew with F2's play you have nothing in this case.

 

The 7.3.6 casebookplay reads:

 

7.3.6 SITUATION:

In hitting a slow roller to F5, the (a) whole bat slips out of his hands and interferes with F5 or (b) his bat breaks and hits the ball or F5 as F5 attempts to field the ball.

RULING: In (a), the ball is dead immediately. B1 is declared out for interference, because B1 is responsible for controlling his bat and not allowing it to interfere with a defensive player attempting a play. In (b), there is no penalty and the ball remains live.

 

It is a very different situation with a fair hit ball that the bat interferes with. How this could I happen I reall can't imagine inthe real world, but its there. .

[maven]

 

If you are playing OBR, I've got an out here. I don't work FED so I can comment on that rule set.

MLB Rules 6.05 (H) A better is OUT when

(h) After hitting or bunting a fair ball, his bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory. The ball is dead and no runners may advance. If the batter-runner drops his bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play.

So we don't have a hit or bunted ball BUUUUT...This is further down in the notes below the rule

If a whole bat is thrown into fair or foul territory and interferes with a defensive player attempting to make a play, interference shall be called, whether intentional or not.

 

Not the purpose of that rule.

Batter was doing what he was supposed to do. Similar to accidentally kicking or stepping on the ball while headed to 1B. The defense had its chance to field the pitch cleanly.

Intent is required here.

 

 

No longer true for OBR. The updated interp of 7.09(a) makes this interference regardless of intent by the BR. Hindrance = INT.

 

Since the OP specifies FED, the OBR ruling is moot. 7-3-6 couldn't be much clearer: whole bat thrown, hinders F2 trying to make a play. Hindrance = INT, no intent required here either.

 

I'm not applying 8.4.1I here: the BR is responsible for controlling his bat so that he doesn't hinder the defense, and we penalize negligence. He has to run somewhere, and if he inadvertently steps on or kicks the ball, that's nothing.

[jkumpire]

Maven,

 

I believe you are wrong here in FED, and the difference is throwing the bat as opposed to dropping it. Throwing the bat is by definition intentionally doing something to interfere with the play. In the situation discussed here the batter does nothing intentional, hence there is not interference.  In the 7-3-6 case play the bat is not dropped, it slips out of the fielder's hands, i.e, the bat goes a distance, or better put thrown. In the OP, the bat just cannot disapear.    

[zoops]

Based on the OBR rule, I would probably agree that this would be an out:  7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when— (a) After a third strike he clearly hinders the catcher in his attempt to field the ball. Such batter-runner is out, the ball is dead, and all other runners return to the bases they occupied at the time of the pitch; Rule 7.09(a) Comment: If the pitched ball deflects off the catcher or umpire and subsequently touches the batter-runner, it is not considered interference unless, in the judgment of the umpire, the batter-runner clearly hinders the catcher in his attempt to field the ball.

 

The only problem I have with calling this an out per FED rule 7-3-6 is the word "thrown."  Dropping the bat in the batter's box isn't exactly what I would call "thrown."

[maven]

Maven,

 

I believe you are wrong here in FED, and the difference is throwing the bat as opposed to dropping it. Throwing the bat is by definition intentionally doing something to interfere with the play. In the situation discussed here the batter does nothing intentional, hence there is not interference.  In the 7-3-6 case play the bat is not dropped, it slips out of the fielder's hands, i.e, the bat goes a distance, or better put thrown. In the OP, the bat just cannot disapear.

 

Don't hang your hat on 'thrown' vs 'dropped'. As the case play makes clear, the operative principle is that the batter is responsible for his bat, whether he drops, throws, flings, hurls, tosses, or otherwise releases it from his hands.

7.3.6 SITUATION: In hitting a slow roller to F5, the (a) whole bat slips out of his hands and interferes with F5 or (b) his bat breaks and hits the ball or F5 as F5 attempts to field the ball.

RULING: In (a), the ball is dead immediately. B1 is declared out for interference, because B1 is responsible for controlling his bat and not allowing it to interfere with a defensive player attempting a play. In (b), there is no penalty and the ball remains live.

[jkumpire]

Thanls for the reply Maven, but I quoted the same case book play in my post. May just have to disagree here.

[Rich Ives]

There is a difference between interfering with the ball and interfering with the fielder.  

[Haid D' Salaami]

If you are playing OBR,  I've got an out here. I don't work FED so I can comment on that rule set. 

MLB Rules 6.05 (H) A better is OUT when 

(h) After hitting or bunting a fair ball, his bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory. The ball is dead and no runners may advance. If the batter-runner drops his bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play.

So we don't have a hit or bunted ball BUUUUT...This is further down in the notes below the rule 

If a whole bat is thrown into fair or foul territory and interferes with a defensive player attempting to make a play, interference shall be called, whether intentional or not. 

 

well the good news is .. he didnt hit the ball or bunt.. he missed a pitch which was a Uc3rd strike... there is nothing in this play, but bad luck for the catcher.