Why Can't We Appeal a Strike?

[ElkOil]

We appeal check swings only if we call a ball, but never if we call a strike.  Why is that?  Why is the strike absolute, but the ball call subject to change?

[maven]

Why would you want to reverse a strike call?

[Stan W.]

Many things in the rule book rely on the judgment of the umpire. And as such, the rule book grants absolute power to the designated umpire. For example balls and strikes..... a checked swing is only slightly different as it understands that the HPU is tracking the ball to the glove and may not have the best angle on a checked swing....upon appeal, that power is granted to the field umpire....and the only choices are to confirm the HPU umpire ruling of a ball (he did not go) or confirming that he did go and changing the call to a strike.... 

 

Granting the ability for a field umpire to overturn a called strike would seriously affect the balance of power that the rule book gives to each umpire, decrease the authority of those umpires in the eyes of the participants and add unnecessary chaos to the game.... 

[tjwoelfel13]

Because if you called it a strike you are saying it went through the strike zone therefor the swing is irrelevant whereas if it was outside the zone the swing could be the difference between strike and ball. 

[ZebraStripes]

We appeal check swings only if we call a ball, but never if we call a strike.  Why is that?  Why is the strike absolute, but the ball call subject to change?

crazy talk

[ZebraStripes]

We appeal check swings only if we call a ball, but never if we call a strike.  Why is that?  Why is the strike absolute, but the ball call subject to change?

Defensive team can appeal a missed base, leaving a base early on a tag, or a checked swing.  Unless I am having a brain fart right now, the offensive team can not appeal any play.  They can argue, but there is no appeal.  

[MnBlue]

There shouldn't be an appeal on a check-swing.  You can ask your partner for help ("Did he go?"), but no one should ever be allowed to appeal a ball/strike call.  Sometimes you may see a catcher ask the umpire to get help from his partner, but you are not under any obligation to do so, and this is not really an appeal.

[ricka56]

There shouldn't be an appeal on a check-swing.  You can ask your partner for help ("Did he go?"), but no one should ever be allowed to appeal a ball/strike call.  Sometimes you may see a catcher ask the umpire to get help from his partner, but you are not under any obligation to do so, and this is not really an appeal.

If you read 9.02(C ) comments, you will see that your assertions that a check-swing isn't an appeal or that you are not required to grant the appeal (OBR) are incorrect.

[johnnyg08]

In NCAA and OBR, by rule, you must ask if requested 

[MnBlue]

@ricka56:  you're correct with OBR and is likely a better answer to the OP.  However, FED rule 10.1.4 lends itself to my interpretation.

[Replacematt]

@ricka56:  you're correct with OBR and is likely a better answer to the OP.  However, FED rule 10.1.4 lends itself to my interpretation.

A. There is no rule 10.1.4. Periods refer to the case book. You mean 10-1-4.

B. Treat check-swings the same as OBR. It's the right thing to do.

[ricka56]

@ricka56:  you're correct with OBR and is likely a better answer to the OP.  However, FED rule 10.1.4 lends itself to my interpretation.

 

What reason would you ever have to not grant the request ?

[basejester]

I think it's just a question of the defaults. The plate umpire calls a swinging if he sees an attempt. If he doesn't see the attempt, he may ask his partner if he saw an attempt. We just don't allow the plate umpire to say, "I saw him not attempt," because that implies complete concentration on the swing rather than the location of the pitch.

This sort of works:

PU - I saw nothing.

Catcher - Please consult your partner.

BU - I saw a blue monkey with a green hat.

PU - OK. The count is two blue monkeys and three purple elephants.

This sort of doesn't:

PU - I saw a blue money with a green hat.

Batter - Please consult your partner.

BU - There were no monkeys. What are you smoking?

PU - OK, I guess I'm crazy. The count is one blue monkey and three purple elephants.

[woodiemiller]

 

We appeal check swings only if we call a ball, but never if we call a strike.  Why is that?  Why is the strike absolute, but the ball call subject to change?

Defensive team can appeal a missed base, leaving a base early on a tag, or a checked swing.  Unless I am having a brain fart right now, the offensive team can not appeal any play.  They can argue, but there is no appeal.  

 

Unless you consider a missed swipe tag or a pulled foot? Thats something the offense can ask the umpire to get help on.

[RingEmUp]

If it's close I'm asking my partner before the catcher or a coach has a chance to ask.  As for the OP, why would you ever want to appeal a strike call?  I'm trying to envision a scenario that could make this happen but so far I got nothing.

[basejester]

A check swing "appeal" is clearly not an "appeal" as defined in 2.0.

[scrounge]

Yep, just to pile on what everyone is saying, consider what's really being asked:

 

Check swing appeal of a ball: Hey, partner, I am calling this pitch a ball on the pitch, but I'm not sure about the location of the bat. Can you give me additional information on whether he swung or not?

 

Check swing appeal of a strike: Hey, partner, I saw him swing and I called it. Do you think I was correct?

 

Doesn't one of those sound completely silly and something no one ever should or would do?

[ZebraStripes]

 

 

We appeal check swings only if we call a ball, but never if we call a strike.  Why is that?  Why is the strike absolute, but the ball call subject to change?

Defensive team can appeal a missed base, leaving a base early on a tag, or a checked swing.  Unless I am having a brain fart right now, the offensive team can not appeal any play.  They can argue, but there is no appeal.  

 

Unless you consider a missed swipe tag or a pulled foot? Thats something the offense can ask the umpire to get help on.

 

well there you go, brain fart indeed.  I need to be on a ball field...

[ElkOil]

Yep, just to pile on what everyone is saying, consider what's really being asked:

 

Check swing appeal of a ball: Hey, partner, I am calling this pitch a ball on the pitch, but I'm not sure about the location of the bat. Can you give me additional information on whether he swung or not?

 

Check swing appeal of a strike: Hey, partner, I saw him swing and I called it. Do you think I was correct?

 

Doesn't one of those sound completely silly and something no one ever should or would do?

 

To me, one doesn't sound any sillier than the other.  If we're allowed to be unsure that we saw someone NOT swing, why can't we also be allowed to be unsure that we saw someone swing?

 

On the surface, it seems like the difference is arbitrary.

 

Now then... before I get painted as a troll (or worse), I'm not advocating anything here -- I'm just curious about why this is the way it is.  I'm playing devil's advocate.

[maven]

To me, one doesn't sound any sillier than the other.  If we're allowed to be unsure that we saw someone NOT swing, why can't we also be allowed to be unsure that we saw someone swing?

 

On the surface, it seems like the difference is arbitrary.

 

Now then... before I get painted as a troll (or worse), I'm not advocating anything here -- I'm just curious about why this is the way it is.  I'm playing devil's advocate.

The difference is: if a call "ball," then I might have seen the pitch but not the swing. In that case, it makes sense to get help with something I did not see.

 

If I rule a swinging strike, then I saw the swing and ruled on it. We're not appealing that, since it's something I did see and since it's my call.

 

Also: why would you want to reverse a strike call?

[basejester]

Also: why would you want to reverse a strike call?

This part seems self-evident: to get it right. Is this a joke?

[ElkOil]

 

To me, one doesn't sound any sillier than the other.  If we're allowed to be unsure that we saw someone NOT swing, why can't we also be allowed to be unsure that we saw someone swing?

 

On the surface, it seems like the difference is arbitrary.

 

Now then... before I get painted as a troll (or worse), I'm not advocating anything here -- I'm just curious about why this is the way it is.  I'm playing devil's advocate.

The difference is: if a call "ball," then I might have seen the pitch but not the swing. In that case, it makes sense to get help with something I did not see.

 

If I rule a swinging strike, then I saw the swing and ruled on it. We're not appealing that, since it's something I did see and since it's my call.

 

Also: why would you want to reverse a strike call?

 

 

I wouldn't want to reverse a strike call, in the same way that I wouldn't want to reverse an out call, but sometimes we do after consultation with our partner. But that's on the fringe of the argument.  The more germane element here is the practice of doing one but not the other.

 

And I see your point about the swing:  If the batter swings, the location of the pitch is irrelevant.  And if the location was a strike, the swing is irrelevant.  And in not swinging, since the location of the pitch is relevant it's possible we saw the location and not the swing.  

[noumpere]

If it's close I'm asking my partner before the catcher or a coach has a chance to ask. 

 

That's a recipe for disaster, except in the rare case of check-swing and D3K.

 

Wait.

[ZebraStripes]

If it's close I'm asking my partner before the catcher or a coach has a chance to ask.  As for the OP, why would you ever want to appeal a strike call?  I'm trying to envision a scenario that could make this happen but so far I got nothing.

If it is close and you have it as a swing, make the call, there is no need to ask for help.  You do this on all close ones?

[johnnyg08]

 

If it's close I'm asking my partner before the catcher or a coach has a chance to ask. 

 

That's a recipe for disaster, except in the rare case of check-swing and D3K.

 

Wait.

 

 

I'm not sure I disagree w/ RingEmUp.  There are times where I will ask because I need to ask.  I'm not sure we need to wait and simply go on our own.  

 

What disaster could come of it?  Maybe I'm missing something.