hit batter.....again

[gymcoch]

In LL, is there a rule that states that a P needs to be replaced after hitting a certain number of batters?

By the way: umped my 3rd LL game from behind the plate. Got to call my first runners interference, although I goofed and let the play run it's course and then called the runner out rather than calling dead ball.

[basejester]

 

 

I would have a hard time removing a pitcher who I did not think was intentionally throwing at batters. I was just wondering how you guys deal with the other side of this, the kid who can't swing the bat without the bat launching into a fence or at your head. I have seen numerous guys warn for this and even call BR out. Not sure where the out comes from but if you can warn a batter for a safety issue why not F1? Just wondering.

If throwing at the batter is intentional, you can warn and eject.

 

If it's not intentional, then warning him to stop can't achieve anything.  He's already, by definition, trying not to hit the batter.

 

How do you deal with a kid who is unintentionally throwing his bat at you and F2? Thats where my question comes from.

I understand that you are drawing a parallel between two safety issues. 

 

You warn and eject a batter who is throwing a bat.  I don't think I can say that throwing a bat is unintentional.  It may be without malice, but it's not with proper regard for others' safety.  That is, throwing a bat to the backstop to the backstop isn't OK.

 

On the other hand, throwing the baseball is a fundamental part of the game.  And me going out to the pitcher and telling him to aim better isn't going to help him do so; he's already trying.

[SoCal Lurker]

 

I have run into that situation in LL All Star play.  Offensive team wants F1 removed after he hit his third batter.  OHC was dumbfounded when I declined.

Plenty LL coaches don't know the difference between real rules and their league's made up rules.....or the "rules" they've made up themselves that no one else knows.  

 

 

And rules that an ump in one of their games has made up and enforced . . .

[Guest Wes]

I seem to have started a bit of controversy with this post. Let me tell you what I, as the ultimate newbie would do (if you don't mind). I know I will get scoffed at, but it's merely my belief:

 

So I am talking strictly about LL. I will pretend it's for a league that I am NOT on the board of.

If I saw a kid unintentionally hit 6 batters within1-2 innings, I would talk to the OC (and the DC if he chose to be in on it). I would ask him if this is normal for this kid and tell him that if he continued to plunk kids, I would ask the OC to remove him.

I understand that if the OC was a prick and argued that there was no rule for this, that I would have no grounds to do it.

 

Bottom line for me would be this: it's LL. I am not being paid nor am I looking to move up to umping a game at Williamsport. I am there for the kids. Period. And if I got ridiculed by my peers or asked not to umpire again because I "made up a rule", I could easily live with that. If I let it go on and kids were crying, got injured and were no longer having fun, I don't think I could live with THAT. If I were a parent of a kid on the team that kept getting HBP, and nothing was being done about it, I would remove him from the game. It's supposed to be fun.

[MooseLoop]

Twice in ten-plus years, I have warned a coach that his pitcher, who had hit several batters painfully and dangerously, was intentionally throwing harder than he could control, which I interpreted as being unsportsmanlike and malicious contact, and that I would eject the pitcher if it happened again. Both coaches were displeased.  

 

I hear and understand all of you who claim I am making up rules.  I could argue that I am merely interpreting an existing rule.  On the other hand, some players may get hurt, and others may quit baseball.  I will err on the side of safety and the interests of baseball.   Let the coach protest, and the league can decide. 

 

FWIW, I do not do this on routine multiple low-speed plunkings.

[Guest Wes]

In my above post, please switch OC and DC in my comment

[Replacematt]

Holy SH*#...I'm going to do my best to avoid a two-word reference here, but...

 

I seem to have started a bit of controversy with this post. Let me tell you what I, as the ultimate newbie would do (if you don't mind). I know I will get scoffed at, but it's merely my belief:

 

So I am talking strictly about LL. I will pretend it's for a league that I am NOT on the board of.

If I saw a kid unintentionally hit 6 batters within1-2 innings, I would talk to the OC (and the DC if he chose to be in on it). I would ask him if this is normal for this kid and tell him that if he continued to plunk kids, I would ask the OC to remove him.

I understand that if the OC was a prick and argued that there was no rule for this, that I would have no grounds to do it.

 

Bottom line for me would be this: it's LL. I am not being paid nor am I looking to move up to umping a game at Williamsport. I am there for the kids. Period. And if I got ridiculed by my peers or asked not to umpire again because I "made up a rule", I could easily live with that. If I let it go on and kids were crying, got injured and were no longer having fun, I don't think I could live with THAT. If I were a parent of a kid on the team that kept getting HBP, and nothing was being done about it, I would remove him from the game. It's supposed to be fun.

 

Whoop-dee-doo. You aren't the fun police. What are you going to do when the DC tells you no? Eject him because he won't follow your made-up BS? Again, umpires umpire, coaches coach. I don't let them do it at the same time, and you can't, either.

 

Twice in ten-plus years, I have warned a coach that his pitcher, who had hit several batters painfully and dangerously, was intentionally throwing harder than he could control, which I interpreted as being unsportsmanlike and malicious contact, and that I would eject the pitcher if it happened again. Both coaches were displeased.  

 

I hear and understand all of you who claim I am making up rules.  I could argue that I am merely interpreting an existing rule.  On the other hand, some players may get hurt, and others may quit baseball.  I will err on the side of safety and the interests of baseball.   Let the coach protest, and the league can decide. 

 

Umpires that claim some sort of moralistic code to avoid enforcing the rules as intended are not umpires. What gives you the power to enforce some pseudoesoteric ideal that isn't in the rules? 

[1dumbquestion]

Twice in ten-plus years, I have warned a coach that his pitcher, who had hit several batters painfully and dangerously, was intentionally throwing harder than he could control, which I interpreted as being unsportsmanlike and malicious contact, and that I would eject the pitcher if it happened again. Both coaches were displeased.  

 

I hear and understand all of you who claim I am making up rules.  I could argue that I am merely interpreting an existing rule.  On the other hand, some players may get hurt, and others may quit baseball.  I will err on the side of safety and the interests of baseball.   Let the coach protest, and the league can decide. 

 

FWIW, I do not do this on routine multiple low-speed plunkings.

I am interested in finding out just what existing rule you are merely interpreting?

[Guest Wes]

Matt:

"what give you the power to enforce some pseudo esoteric ideal that isn't the rules"?

 

I guess not being an a-hole!

[ALStripes17]

Or we can teach the kids that their reward is 1B... Yay!! You did something for your team!

Not everybody is a winner. If a DC wants to leave 'Hit the Bull' McGhee in for that long, then the batters get to learn a lesson in patience and why you would set up in the furthest corner of the batter's box.

It's our job to administer the rules of the game. Kids realize at different ages when baseball is not their thing. This would accelerate that inevitable process

It's not the umpire's job or responsibility.

[Replacematt]

Matt:

"what give you the power to enforce some pseudo esoteric ideal that isn't the rules"?

 

I guess not being an a-hole!

 

Lots of umpires aren't assholes. Lots of umpires also don't make up rules.

[Guest Wes]

My kid has a dentist appt. and I bring him to school late. On the playground, 3 kids are beating the snot of a helpless kid who is laying on the ground.

Not my problem; principal should be on that!

 

yeah, sorry....I'm stepping in if things get out of control and kids might get hurt.

 

And I don't feel pseudo esoteric about it at all!

[Replacematt]

My kid has a dentist appt. and I bring him to school late. On the playground, 3 kids are beating the snot of a helpless kid who is laying on the ground.

Not my problem; principal should be on that!

 

yeah, sorry....I'm stepping in if things get out of control and kids might get hurt.

 

And I don't feel pseudo esoteric about it at all!

 

Do you want to have a conversation, or do you just want to bring in things that are irrelevant?

[JaxRolo]

My kid has a dentist appt. and I bring him to school late. On the playground, 3 kids are beating the snot of a helpless kid who is laying on the ground.

Not my problem; principal should be on that!

 

yeah, sorry....I'm stepping in if things get out of control and kids might get hurt.

 

And I don't feel pseudo esoteric about it at all!

Apples and oranges

[grayhawk]

I guess this is one of those off-season conversations that just gets out of hand.  Seriously, is this a real problem?  Are there THAT many kids that couldn't hit water if they fell out of a frickin boat?  And if so, are there THAT many coaches that will leave a kid in who is pitching like it's the shooting gallery at a carnival?

 

I can honestly say that I have never once even thought of suggesting to a coach that he should replace his pitcher.  Once they see runners rounding the bases because the pitcher keeps hitting batters, coaches tend to figure out for themselves that they need to put someone else in.

 

That said, if this situation does happen, since I expect coaches to stay out of MY business, I certainly won't insert myself into HIS business.

[ALStripes17]

My kid has a dentist appt. and I bring him to school late. On the playground, 3 kids are beating the snot of a helpless kid who is laying on the ground.

Not my problem; principal should be on that!

yeah, sorry....I'm stepping in if things get out of control and kids might get hurt.

And I don't feel pseudo esoteric about it at all!

9.01 ©

[elares]

 

If I'm doing kids under 12 and I've got a kid throwing extremely hard, hitting 5-6 kids, we've got a  situation. I think if another kid gets hit at that point I'll toss the pitcher. Anyone who tells me I can't do that, my response will be "In my judgement he intentionaly threw at the batter. He's done." 

 

Don't even think about it.

 

or what...?

[Rich Ives]

 

My kid has a dentist appt. and I bring him to school late. On the playground, 3 kids are beating the snot of a helpless kid who is laying on the ground.

Not my problem; principal should be on that!

yeah, sorry....I'm stepping in if things get out of control and kids might get hurt.

And I don't feel pseudo esoteric about it at all!

9.01 (c )

 

 

 

There are already sub rules so this doesn't apply.

 

 

If I'm doing kids under 12 and I've got a kid throwing extremely hard, hitting 5-6 kids, we've got a  situation. I think if another kid gets hit at that point I'll toss the pitcher. Anyone who tells me I can't do that, my response will be "In my judgement he intentionaly threw at the batter. He's done." 

 

Don't even think about it.

 

or what...?

 

 

 

I protest the game. Protest gets upheld. Umpire gets bad rep. Not good for future jobs.

[ALStripes17]

My kid has a dentist appt. and I bring him to school late. On the playground, 3 kids are beating the snot of a helpless kid who is laying on the ground.

Not my problem; principal should be on that!

yeah, sorry....I'm stepping in if things get out of control and kids might get hurt.

And I don't feel pseudo esoteric about it at all!

9.01 (c )

There are already sub rules so this doesn't apply.

If I'm doing kids under 12 and I've got a kid throwing extremely hard, hitting 5-6 kids, we've got a situation. I think if another kid gets hit at that point I'll toss the pitcher. Anyone who tells me I can't do that, my response will be "In my judgement he intentionaly threw at the batter. He's done."

Don't even think about it.

or what...?

I protest the game. Protest gets upheld. Umpire gets bad rep. Not good for future jobs.

There are no substitution rules for playground altercations. That's why 9.01c would apply there :)

[Richvee]

 

 

My kid has a dentist appt. and I bring him to school late. On the playground, 3 kids are beating the snot of a helpless kid who is laying on the ground.

Not my problem; principal should be on that!

yeah, sorry....I'm stepping in if things get out of control and kids might get hurt.

And I don't feel pseudo esoteric about it at all!

9.01 (c )

 

 

 

There are already sub rules so this doesn't apply.

 

 

If I'm doing kids under 12 and I've got a kid throwing extremely hard, hitting 5-6 kids, we've got a  situation. I think if another kid gets hit at that point I'll toss the pitcher. Anyone who tells me I can't do that, my response will be "In my judgement he intentionaly threw at the batter. He's done." 

 

Don't even think about it.

 

or what...?

 

 

 

I protest the game. Protest gets upheld. Umpire gets bad rep. Not good for future jobs.

 

Protest away. In my judgement he threw at the batter. If I get a bad rep because I'm trying to protect 11 nad 12 year year olds from almost certain injury, so be it. Just to emphasize, I'm not talking about a travel league, or an all star team or a tourney. I'm talking about a hypothetical situation in a regular season rec LL game. ANd it would have to be the  extreme situation I made up earlier. If I got a kid who can't rip a piece of paper with his pitches, he could hit kids all day. He's not putting anyone in danger. But if I feel kid's safety is unduly put in jeopardy, the pitcher's gotta  go. I'll take the heat from anyone who thinks I did the wrong thing. ANd if the league feels I did the wrong thing, that might not be the REC league I'd care to be associated with anyway. 

[Richvee]

I guess this is one of those off-season conversations that just gets out of hand.  Seriously, is this a real problem?  Are there THAT many kids that couldn't hit water if they fell out of a frickin boat?  And if so, are there THAT many coaches that will leave a kid in who is pitching like it's the shooting gallery at a carnival?

 

I can honestly say that I have never once even thought of suggesting to a coach that he should replace his pitcher.  Once they see runners rounding the bases because the pitcher keeps hitting batters, coaches tend to figure out for themselves that they need to put someone else in.

 

That said, if this situation does happen, since I expect coaches to stay out of MY business, I certainly won't insert myself into HIS business.

Yes, it's one of those off season conversations. No, it's not a real problem. I've never seen anything even close to resembling my extreme example on page 2. It's a complete hypothetical situation, and again, it would have to be rec ball, and it would have to be as severe as I said for me to do anything about it. Chances of any of us ever seeing anything this drastic is close to zero. 

[Sayhey]

It would be hard to eject a pitcher for intentionally hitting a batter when it's obvious he has no control. We know a pitcher has just hit a batter intentionally because of the contrast between the beanball pitch and the corners he has been hitting all night. If the pitcher can't throw strikes how would you know and rule that he hit a batter intentionally?

Sometimes we have evidence that tells us a pitcher has beaned a batter intentionally. Because of hate and discontent between two star players on opposite teams I warned both coaches at a plate conference to start game two of a doubleheader. We almost had a fight in game 1. Several batter's were hit with pitches on each side. Batter 1 and 2 went down on strikes on the black to start game3. Batter 3 was messing with the pitcher's girlfriend. The pitcher hit him in the helmet with the first pitch. I ejected the starting pitcher after 7 pitches and ejected the head coach.