Non starter pitcher reentered as pitcher.

[Guest Jamie]

Last game starting pitcher pulled, relief pitcher put in then he was pulled and starter put back in THEN star ter pulled and the same relief pitcher put back in. Is that a legal play? Should the game have been forfeited? Was told it was allowed due to continuious batting order.

[maven]

OBR: not legal. Once removed from the game, any player is done for the remainder of the game.

 

FED: You don't mention whether these moves involved (a) substitutions, or (b) just players changing positions on defense. (a) Returning the starting pitcher after substituting for him is legal, provided his re-entry privilege is intact (some pitching infractions can negate it). Returning the substitute pitcher to the game after he has been removed is not legal, since substitutes do not have the re-entry privilege. (b) If both pitchers were in the lineup and simply changed positions, then the moves listed are legal: a pitcher may be removed and returned to the mound once per inning, and the team did that with each pitcher as described.

 

LOCAL: who knows? I don't see why a continuous batting order would be relevant, since that is not a substitution rule for the defense.

 

In none of these cases would violations result in a forfeit, which is the nuclear option of penalties.

[noumpere]

What rules set?  (And, much of the answer might depend on local rules)

[Rich Ives]

OBR:  IF the pitcher simply moved to a different defensive position he can return to pitch.

 

LL: A pitcher cannot return even if they are using CBO.

 

Your local rules may vary.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

Ditto.  Not enough info in OP to render a decision.

 

The source of the confusion starts when local ass'n and various sanctioning bodies insist on re-inventing the wheel by making up their own rules. 

[Larry in TN]

LL: A pitcher cannot return even if they are using CBO.

That depends on the division in LL.

In Intermediate (50-70), Junior, Senior, and Big League divisions pitchers can return with some restrictions. In Majors and Minors divisions the pitchers can NOT return. There is also the possibility of pitching in more than one game in a day in the upper divisions.

The divisions can be confusing as many use "Little League" to mean Major division (11 & 12 yr old league age) but Little League has divisions from T-Ball up through age 18.

[Rich Ives]

 

LL: A pitcher cannot return even if they are using CBO.

That depends on the division in LL.

In Intermediate (50-70), Junior, Senior, and Big League divisions pitchers can return with some restrictions. In Majors and Minors divisions the pitchers can NOT return. There is also the possibility of pitching in more than one game in a day in the upper divisions.

The divisions can be confusing as many use "Little League" to mean Major division (11 & 12 yr old league age) but Little League has divisions from T-Ball up through age 18.

 

 

"Little League" IS majors/minors.  It even says so right in the LL rule book. See pages 12-13 in the 2014 rule book.  The other divisions are the Intermediate, Junior, Senior, and Big leagues.

 

And yes, the pitchers can return in the upper divisions.

[Larry in TN]

"Little League" IS majors/minors.  It even says so right in the LL rule book. See pages 12-13 in the 2014 rule book.  The other divisions are the Intermediate, Junior, Senior, and Big leagues.

That's what I am saying. Little League is often used to indicate LL Majors or LL Minors and Majors as well as covering all Little League division from T-Ball through Big League. It's easy to get confused about what exactly a person means when they say "Little League".

It's like how to refer to the Big Island of Hawaii. The island itself is named Hawaii as is the state. If someone just says Hawaii he could be referring to either.

Here, where we're talking about specific rule application, I think it is important that we're clear about the division we're talking about or we can cause additional confusion by those who don't fully understand the distinction.

[Rich Ives]

 

"Little League" IS majors/minors.  It even says so right in the LL rule book. See pages 12-13 in the 2014 rule book.  The other divisions are the Intermediate, Junior, Senior, and Big leagues.

That's what I am saying. Little League is often used to indicate LL Majors or LL Minors and Majors as well as covering all Little League division from T-Ball through Big League. It's easy to get confused about what exactly a person means when they say "Little League".

It's like how to refer to the Big Island of Hawaii. The island itself is named Hawaii as is the state. If someone just says Hawaii he could be referring to either.

Here, where we're talking about specific rule application, I think it is important that we're clear about the division we're talking about or we can cause additional confusion by those who don't fully understand the distinction.

 

 

 

Once again.  "Little League" is just the majors.minors division. The other divisions have different names and in my experience on several boards the distinction is well understood. People know enough to say "Intermediate", "Juniors", "Seniors" or whatever when referencing the older kids.

 

The Ford Motor Company makes/made Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln cars. If I say "I drive a Ford" does anyone think I 'm talking about a Lincoln?

[goody14]

FED: You don't mention whether these moves involved (a) substitutions, or (b) just players changing positions on defense. (a) Returning the starting pitcher after substituting for him is legal, provided his re-entry privilege is intact (some pitching infractions can negate it). Returning the substitute pitcher to the game after he has been removed is not legal, since substitutes do not have the re-entry privilege. (b) If both pitchers were in the lineup and simply changed positions, then the moves listed are legal: a pitcher may be removed and returned to the mound once per inning, and the team did that with each pitcher as described.

 

 

As long as his removal was not the result of a conference occurring after the team already had three conferences.

[basejester]

"Little League" IS majors/minors.  It even says so right in the LL rule book. See pages 12-13 in the 2014 rule book.  The other divisions are the Intermediate, Junior, Senior, and Big leagues.

I'm looking at those pages and I don't see any hint that Minors is more "Little League" than Intermediate. 

 

These are the divisions listed:

• Tee Ball Baseball and Tee Ball Softball
• Minor League Baseball and Minor League Baseball
• Little League Baseball and Little League Softball (also known as the Major Division)
• Little League Intermediate (50/70) Baseball Division
• Junior League Baseball and Junior League Softball
• Senior League Baseball and Senior League Softball
• Big League Baseball and Big League Softball
• The Challenger Division

 

What are you reading that tells you Little League means the Major and Minor Divisions?

 

It's seems obvious to me (and I think, to everyone who's been with Little League less than 20 years) that the right way to deal with this is to call the division Major and the organization as a whole Little League.  The other way, where Little League might mean a division or it might mean the whole organization, inevitably leads to the follow-up question of which the speaker means or just misunderstanding.  E.g., "Any runner is out when the runner does not slide or attempt to get around a fielder who has the ball and is waiting to make the tag.  This is a Little League rule."  So, what does that mean?

[Rich Ives]

 

"Little League" IS majors/minors.  It even says so right in the LL rule book. See pages 12-13 in the 2014 rule book.  The other divisions are the Intermediate, Junior, Senior, and Big leagues.

I'm looking at those pages and I don't see any hint that Minors is more "Little League" than Intermediate. 

 

These are the divisions listed:

• Tee Ball Baseball and Tee Ball Softball
• Minor League Baseball and Minor League Baseball
• Little League Baseball and Little League Softball (also known as the Major Division)
• Little League Intermediate (50/70) Baseball Division
• Junior League Baseball and Junior League Softball
• Senior League Baseball and Senior League Softball
• Big League Baseball and Big League Softball
• The Challenger Division

 

What are you reading that tells you Little League means the Major and Minor Divisions?

 

It's seems obvious to me (and I think, to everyone who's been with Little League less than 20 years) that the right way to deal with this is to call the division Major and the organization as a whole Little League.  The other way, where Little League might mean a division or it might mean the whole organization, inevitably leads to the follow-up question of which the speaker means or just misunderstanding.  E.g., "Any runner is out when the runner does not slide or attempt to get around a fielder who has the ball and is waiting to make the tag.  This is a Little League rule."  So, what does that mean?

 

 

You didn't comprehend.

 

"Little League Baseball and Softball (also known as the major division) . . ."  (p. 13)

 

In the "2014 Baseball Official Regulations with Playing and Tournament Rules" book published by Little League International, the rule differences among the various divisions are separated or otherwise delineated where differences exist.

 

People posting on the boards (here and elsewhere) almost always refer to Juniors, Seniors, etc. by the division name. They do this because they know the rules differ and want to get the ruling for their situation. They are much more aware than you give them credit for.

 

See my "Ford" comment in another post.

[basejester]

 

 

"Little League" IS majors/minors.  It even says so right in the LL rule book. See pages 12-13 in the 2014 rule book.  The other divisions are the Intermediate, Junior, Senior, and Big leagues.

I'm looking at those pages and I don't see any hint that Minors is more "Little League" than Intermediate. 

 

These are the divisions listed:

• Tee Ball Baseball and Tee Ball Softball
• Minor League Baseball and Minor League Baseball
• Little League Baseball and Little League Softball (also known as the Major Division)
• Little League Intermediate (50/70) Baseball Division
• Junior League Baseball and Junior League Softball
• Senior League Baseball and Senior League Softball
• Big League Baseball and Big League Softball
• The Challenger Division

 

What are you reading that tells you Little League means the Major and Minor Divisions?

 

It's seems obvious to me (and I think, to everyone who's been with Little League less than 20 years) that the right way to deal with this is to call the division Major and the organization as a whole Little League.  The other way, where Little League might mean a division or it might mean the whole organization, inevitably leads to the follow-up question of which the speaker means or just misunderstanding.  E.g., "Any runner is out when the runner does not slide or attempt to get around a fielder who has the ball and is waiting to make the tag.  This is a Little League rule."  So, what does that mean?

 

 

You didn't comprehend.

 

"Little League Baseball and Softball (also known as the major division) . . ."  (p. 13)

I agree with that part.   Major Division = Little League proper.

 

But I don't see anywhere on 12-13 that Minor Division = Little League proper.  You don't seem to be able to support this assertion.

[Replacematt]

Rich is simply looking for an argument. If he wants to do car analogies, a more proper one would be Ram. Every division of Little League is Little League; each also has its own designation to separate it from other divisions. Likewise, all trucks made by Rams are Rams, but also can have a class/trim designation. 

 

.

[Larry in TN]

On the front cover of the Little League rule book it says, "FOR ALL DIVISIONS OF LITTLE LEAGUE BASEBALL".