Out of the box and a balk

[Tksjewelry]

I had a 12u training league fall ball game today. Under MLB with some changes for training. Warnings for first balks and balks dead the ball.

Batter in the box with a 2/1 count and bases loaded. Pitcher is in the middle of delivery when the batter says time and steps out of the box. Pitcher sees batter step out and windmills his pitching motion, doesn't deliver the ball and bobbles off the mound. I call time and explain to the batter about not stepping out of the box mid pitch and I am the only one that can grant time but that I don't have too, yadda yadda. Then I talked to the pitcher about no matter what, you finish delivery of a pitch.

Since this was a training league, coaches talked to their respective players and started the next pitch at the 2/1 count. What would the call have been in an actual competitive game? Would a balk be inforced? What about the hitter for stepping out of the box?

[umpstu]

Do over

[afaber12]

Batter in the box with a 2/1 count and bases loaded. Pitcher is in the middle of delivery when the batter says time and steps out of the box. Pitcher sees batter step out and windmills his pitching motion, doesn't deliver the ball and bobbles off the mound. ...

What would the call have been in an actual competitive game? Would a balk be inforced? What about the hitter for stepping out of the box?

If they've both done the wrong thing, then neither get penalised and it counts as if nothing happened.

 

The rule reference you'd be looking for is towards the end of the comment for 6.02:

"If, after the pitcher starts the wind up or comes to set position with a runner on, the pitcher does not go through with the pitch because the batter stepped out of the box, it shall not be called a 'balk'. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call "time" and both the batter and pitcher start over from 'scratch'.

[Tksjewelry]

Thanks @afaber12, now after calling time what do I signal or say?

[bam]

Thanks @afaber12, now after calling time what do I signal or say?

Get ready for the next pitch.  Although if there were no one on base, I wouldn't even call time.  

[Dean]

You could say, about the pitcher, "That's Nothing - The batter caused it"; depending on circumstances - like OC starting to yell "that's a balk!"

[Ump29]

 

Batter in the box with a 2/1 count and bases loaded. Pitcher is in the middle of delivery when the batter says time and steps out of the box. Pitcher sees batter step out and windmills his pitching motion, doesn't deliver the ball and bobbles off the mound. ...

What would the call have been in an actual competitive game? Would a balk be inforced? What about the hitter for stepping out of the box?

If they've both done the wrong thing, then neither get penalised and it counts as if nothing happened.

 

The rule reference you'd be looking for is towards the end of the comment for 6.02:

"If, after the pitcher starts the wind up or comes to set position with a runner on, the pitcher does not go through with the pitch because the batter stepped out of the box, it shall not be called a 'balk'. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call "time" and both the batter and pitcher start over from 'scratch'.

 

 

Perfect answer.

[Jimurray]

Thanks @afaber12, now after calling time what do I signal or say?

 

Because you properly did not give the batter time and allowed the pitcher to pitch, technically the pitch was a balk. Pitchers should be taught to continue the pitch no matter what due to unschooled umpires and the possibility in some codes of a free strike. But sometimes the batters action messes up the pitcher's action and you get a wild pitch or what you have in the OP. Even though you did not call time and allowed the pitcher to pitch it is not unheard of to call time a little late and undue the result. The key words are "does not go through with the pitch."

[Replacematt]

 

Thanks @afaber12, now after calling time what do I signal or say?

 

Because you properly did not give the batter time and allowed the pitcher to pitch, technically the pitch was a balk. Pitchers should be taught to continue the pitch no matter what due to unschooled umpires and the possibility in some codes of a free strike. But sometimes the batters action messes up the pitcher's action and you get a wild pitch or what you have in the OP. Even though you did not call time and allowed the pitcher to pitch it is not unheard of to call time a little late and undue the result. The key words are "does not go through with the pitch."

 

 

He didn't pitch.

[Senor Azul]

Mr. Ump29, I can't agree with you completely. Mr. afaber12's answer is just a tad imperfect. You see he gave an incomplete citation. The relevant rule is 6.02(b) CMT and the pertinent text actually appears in the second of two additional paragraphs for the comment.

 

And there is another applicable rule--4.06(a)(3):

 

No manager, player, substitute, coach, trainer or batboy shall at any time, whether from the bench, the coach's box or on the playing field, or elsewhere--

 

(3) Call "time" or employ any other word or phrase or commit any act while the ball is alive and in play for the obvious purpose of trying to make the pitcher commit a balk.

 

 

 

For further discussion about a batter trying to cause a pitcher to balk, please see the thread titled Trick play in the Ask the Umpire forum.

[afaber12]

Mr. Ump29, I can't agree with you completely. Mr. afaber12's answer is just a tad imperfect. You see he gave an incomplete citation. The relevant rule is 6.02(b) CMT and the pertinent text actually appears in the second of two additional paragraphs for the comment.

 

And there is another applicable rule--4.06(a)(3):

 

No manager, player, substitute, coach, trainer or batboy shall at any time, whether from the bench, the coach's box or on the playing field, or elsewhere--

 

(3) Call "time" or employ any other word or phrase or commit any act while the ball is alive and in play for the obvious purpose of trying to make the pitcher commit a balk.

 

 

 

For further discussion about a batter trying to cause a pitcher to balk, please see the thread titled Trick play in the Ask the Umpire forum.

 

I thought about that, but seeing as the OP said "Under MLB ..." I figured the section I quoted was the one that applied. Yes, there are additional paragraphs after the one I quoted in the same comment section, but I figured it was unlikely that there was a 12U league out there somewhere that was considered part of Minor League Baseball.

 

In some codes (including MiLB) there is a potential penalty against the batter for stepping out of the box, but it only applies in certain circumstances where none of the specifically listed conditions exist, such as a  swing and miss, foul, avoiding a pitch, and several others.

 

I'd also point out that violating 4.06(a)(3) carries a penalty of ejection. Assuming that the request for time by the batter was at a normal speaking volume rather than being shouted out, was not accompanied by any gestures or actions except those consistent with him turning towards the PU, putting his hand up to the PU as some do when stepping into the box and getting settled, or stepping back away from the plate, and apart from the timing there wasn't anything particularly unusual about the request, I'd have a hard time ruling that it was for the "obvious purpose" of attempting to induce a balk and ejecting the batter. Certainly the first time round anyway. If I had suspicions about the motive I'd be having a word to the manager. Absent a previous warning or certainty about the batter's motives, that's not going to be enough for me to eject.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

afaber12's post #8 says all that needs to be said.

[JaxRolo]

 

Thanks @afaber12, now after calling time what do I signal or say?

 

Because you properly did not give the batter time and allowed the pitcher to pitch, technically the pitch was a balk. Pitchers should be taught to continue the pitch no matter what due to unschooled umpires and the possibility in some codes of a free strike. But sometimes the batters action messes up the pitcher's action and you get a wild pitch or what you have in the OP. Even though you did not call time and allowed the pitcher to pitch it is not unheard of to call time a little late and undue the result. The key words are "does not go through with the pitch."

 

The rules do say that a batter can not cause a balk.

[Jimurray]

Thanks @afaber12, now after calling time what do I signal or say?

 

Because you properly did not give the batter time and allowed the pitcher to pitch, technically the pitch was a balk. Pitchers should be taught to continue the pitch no matter what due to unschooled umpires and the possibility in some codes of a free strike. But sometimes the batters action messes up the pitcher's action and you get a wild pitch or what you have in the OP. Even though you did not call time and allowed the pitcher to pitch it is not unheard of to call time a little late and undue the result. The key words are "does not go through with the pitch."

The rules do say that a batter can not cause a balk.

I agree that the batter can not cause a balk but where does it literally say that in the rules.

If fact OBR changed 6.02(b) this year to change "stepping out" to "inadvertently cause". I believe the change was in response to a balk call last year on a pitcher who stopped his delivery as the batter called time loudly enough that the pitcher thought the ump called it.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

I'm never going to allow a batter to cause a balk; purposely or inadvertently.