Bunt attempt. Ball hits bat twice.

[johnnyg08]

Batter legally pivots to bunt.  Bunts the ball straight down into home plate.  Ball comes right back up and hits the bat again while the batter is still holding the bat in the batter's box.  Ball rests right in front of the flat part of home plate.  

 

What's your call?  

 

Cite whatever rule set you wish.  

 

 

[pnewton]

Foul ball as I interpret situation - OBR 6.05(h) "... If the batter is in a legal position in the batter’s box, see Rule 6.03, and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, a batted ball that strikes the batter or his bat shall be ruled a foul ball"

[maven]

@pnewton got it. Same in all codes. FED 8-4-1-d-2  Somebody else can look up NCAA.

[Jimurray]

@pnewton got it. Same in all codes. FED 8-4-1-d-2  Somebody else can look up NCAA.

NCAA: 7-7-e. For this sit it is the same in all codes but I think there is a difference if the batter is on the way out of the box and thus has one foot in the air and the other still in the box. OBR would have him out.

[jkumpire]

 

@pnewton got it. Same in all codes. FED 8-4-1-d-2  Somebody else can look up NCAA.

NCAA: 7-7-e. For this sit it is the same in all codes but I think there is a difference if the batter is on the way out of the box and thus has one foot in the air and the other still in the box. OBR would have him out.

 

 

If one foot is in fari territory outside the box it is an out in NCAA and FED too I believe.

[Jimurray]

@pnewton got it. Same in all codes. FED 8-4-1-d-2  Somebody else can look up NCAA.

NCAA: 7-7-e. For this sit it is the same in all codes but I think there is a difference if the batter is on the way out of the box and thus has one foot in the air and the other still in the box. OBR would have him out.

 

If one foot is in fari territory outside the box it is an out in NCAA and FED too I believe.

I believe that is true also but if the batter is leaving the box and has one foot in the air and one foot still in FED and NCAA (I think) do not have the batter out. OBR now does have the batter out.

[kstrunk]

Curious, 6.05 (g) in the LL book has this batter out, ball is dead. Umpire judgment applies when the bat is dropped and hits the ball in fair territory unintentionally, in which case the ball is alive and in play. Am I missing something or is there that great a difference? 

[Rich Ives]

Curious, 6.05 (g) in the LL book has this batter out, ball is dead. Umpire judgment applies when the bat is dropped and hits the ball in fair territory unintentionally, in which case the ball is alive and in play. Am I missing something or is there that great a difference? 

 

LL has it foul by interpretation.

[kstrunk]

@Rich Ives - Can you help me with that LL interpretation, I can't see it. 

[Jimurray]

@Rich Ives - Can you help me with that LL interpretation, I can't see it. 

The RIM has some wording that allows you to not call the batter out:

 

"(g) after hitting or bunting a fair ball, the bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory. The ball is dead and no runner may advance. If the batter-runner drops the bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire's judgment there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play; INSTRUCTOR COMMENTS:  The phrase “while holding the bat†has been removed from this rule. A bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory; the batter will be called out with the ball being dead immediately and runner(s) returning or staying at their time of pitch base(s). “The Right Call†Casebook -- Comment: Rule of thumb here is bat hits ball a second time versus ball hits bat a second time and of course, umpire’s judgment on intent to interfere."

 

But, back when LL and OBR wording was the same professional interps had this as a foul ball if the batter was in the box. If you had any training from a reputable organization back then that's what should have been taught. Although back then I also saw earnest umpires who only had the book to study call the batter out for a "double hit". Back then most of us that knew the interp would call it like FED and NCAA and as long as a foot was not on the ground outside the box we would call a foul ball in OBR. The current OBR rule wording does not allow that anymore and it is different from FED and I think NCAA.

[kstrunk]

I'm a bit slow on the uptake sometimes, but forgive me, I'm still confused. If I call this batter (based on OP) out in LL rules, am I properly interpreting the current rule? 

[Rich Ives]

LL uses the OBR interpretations. The interp for the rule as written is that it's a foul ball.  See the last part of Jimurray's post.

[kstrunk]

Maybe I need it spelled out, but the last part of Jimurray's post seems to indicate that the current OBR wording no longer allows for the foul ball ruling? 

[Jimurray]

Sorry to confuse you. I was referencing the OBR change that protects the batter but specifies both feet in the box. Back when the rule read otherwise most of us thought (from the interps) the batter was protected as long as did not have one foot on the ground outside the box.

[Rich Ives]

Maybe I need it spelled out, but the last part of Jimurray's post seems to indicate that the current OBR wording no longer allows for the foul ball ruling? 

 

LL uses the prior wording - it's foul in the prior wording so it's foul in LL.

[UmpRandy]

I'm agreeing with kstrunk. I have the batter OUT. The rule book plus the commentary back this up.

[maven]

I recommend calling the out if you umpire pro ball, and otherwise call it foul.

[Jimurray]

I'm agreeing with kstrunk. I have the batter OUT. The rule book plus the commentary back this up.

 

 

I recommend calling the out if you umpire pro ball, and otherwise call it foul.

 

If Umprandy was referring to the OP he should not have an out in OBR and if he was using the LLGB he should not have an out if has received any reputable LL training.