Foul Tip Ejection

[CricketChapman]

First one of the season...This guy was an idiot.


I am PU.  18U rec ball, OBR-mod.  VT batting, R2, 2 outs, 2-1 count.  R2 stealing on the pitch and BR foul tips the pitch sharply and directly into F2's mitt.  I give the appropriate visual mechanic and no verbal.  F2 throws back to F1 and R2 starts jogging back to second base.  HT's coaches start yelling, "Tag him!" and F2 throws to F6.  F6 throws to F5 and R2 is out on the play at third.

VT HC (coaching third) runs out to my partner and starts a discussion.  Then HC heads my way, says, "You signaled foul tip!" while acting out my foul tip mechanic.  I said, "Right, coach.  It was a foul tip."  HC turns to my partner and says, "See!  It was a foul tip."  I respond, "The ball is alive and in-play on a foul tip," and my partner said something similar.

At this point, HC turns to my partner and says, "Well, he was safe anyways."  I turn around and step away and my partner says, "We're not going to discuss that" and walks away.  As HC passes me on the way back to the dugout, he says, "He was safe anyways and that's bullsh*t."  HC was ejected.

Post-Ejection:  HC did not say another word.  He briefly stopped in the dugout before making his way to the parking lot.  HC met us walking out and tried to half-ass apologize after the game, but I walked away when I realized he was not being genuine.

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VT HC's guide on how to get tossed:

1.  Lose an argument because you don't know the rules

2.  Question a judgment call because you're pissed you lost the first argument
3.  Then use inappropriate language

Add those three together, and I've got a winner!

[basejester]

Based on those words, that feels like a quick trigger to me.  I can imagine he might also be an ass-hat and use a belligerent tone of voice.  But on paper, I don't see myself ejecting for that.

[Replacematt]

First one of the season...This guy was an idiot.

I am PU.  18U rec ball, OBR-mod.  VT batting, R2, 2 outs, 2-1 count.  R2 stealing on the pitch and BR foul tips the pitch sharply and directly into F2's mitt.  I give the appropriate visual mechanic and no verbal.  F2 throws back to F1 and R2 starts jogging back to second base.  HT's coaches start yelling, "Tag him!" and F2 throws to F6.  F6 throws to F5 and R2 is out on the play at third.

VT HC (coaching third) runs out to my partner and starts a discussion.  Then HC heads my way, says, "You signaled foul tip!" while acting out my foul tip mechanic.  I said, "Right, coach.  It was a foul tip."  HC turns to my partner and says, "See!  It was a foul tip."  I respond, "The ball is alive and in-play on a foul tip," and my partner said something similar.

At this point, HC turns to my partner and says, "Well, he was safe anyways."  I turn around and step away and my partner says, "We're not going to discuss that" and walks away.  As HC passes me on the way back to the dugout, he says, "He was safe anyways and that's bullsh*t."  HC was ejected.

Post-Ejection:  HC did not say another word.  He briefly stopped in the dugout before making his way to the parking lot.  HC met us walking out and tried to half-ass apologize after the game, but I walked away when I realized he was not being genuine.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

VT HC's guide on how to get tossed:

1.  Lose an argument because you don't know the rules

2.  Question a judgment call because you're pissed you lost the first argument

3.  Then use inappropriate language

Add those three together, and I've got a winner!

I'm not tossing here.

[BigUmpire]

"He was safe anyways and that's bullsh*t."

 

GONE everytime.

 

Good Ejection.

 

Bumper sticker:

 

• “Nip it. Nip it in the bud†noumpere

[Replacematt]

"He was safe anyways and that's bullsh*t."

 

GONE everytime.

 

Good Ejection.

 

Bumper sticker:

• “Nip it. Nip it in the bud†noumpere

Wow. That's a low threshold.

[BigUmpire]

 

"He was safe anyways and that's bullsh*t."

 

GONE everytime.

 

Good Ejection.

 

Bumper sticker:

• “Nip it. Nip it in the bud†noumpere

Wow. That's a low threshold.

 

It will only get worse IF you let it go.

 

Obviously you have a coach that does not know the rules SOO he will be on you the rest of the game (foul tip IS a live ball- rules 101!)

 

 

“Nip it. Nip it in the bud†-noumpere

[Replacematt]

It will only get worse IF you let it go.

What's going to get worse?

Swearing is not an ejectable offense at this level.

 

Obviously you have a coach that does not know the rules SOO he will be on you the rest of the game (foul tip IS a live ball- rules 101!)

If he's going to be on you for that, he's going to be on you no matter what he says. If you're tossing for being ignorant, you might as well toss everyone.

[BigUmpire]

It will only get worse IF you let it go.

What's going to get worse?

Swearing is not an ejectable offense at this level.

Obviously you have a coach that does not know the rules SOO he will be on you the rest of the game (foul tip IS a live ball- rules 101!)

If he's going to be on you for that, he's going to be on you no matter what he says. If you're tossing for being ignorant, you might as well toss everyone.

??????

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Replacematt]

It will only get worse IF you let it go.

What's going to get worse?

Swearing is not an ejectable offense at this level.

 

Obviously you have a coach that does not know the rules SOO he will be on you the rest of the game (foul tip IS a live ball- rules 101!)

If he's going to be on you for that, he's going to be on you no matter what he says. If you're tossing for being ignorant, you might as well toss everyone.

??????

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your original post in this thread implied that the last sentence got him tossed.

I say that is not an ejectable offense.

Your second post implies that the reason (at least in part) he got tossed was to prevent escalation.

I say that if you toss for arguing from ignorance (which, again, is not an ejectable offense,) you have to toss almost everyone.

This ejection met none of the Ps, nor is it a rule-book ejection.

[BigUmpire]

Good luck.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Replacematt]

Good luck.

Don't need it.

You toss for this at this level, you'll get a reputation you don't want, and then you'll need some luck.

Why would you even think about ejecting? He's getting off the field and he's not crossing any lines.

[BigUmpire]

I have a reputation already. Don't screw with Jack!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thunderheads]

That means jack has a reputation to be a red ass, because I would not eject there either......

I would return the favor with, that is not bullSH*# it is the correct call and that's enough!

Jeff - via Tapatalk

[BigUmpire]

Further

Even though this is 18U rec you MAY have 15, 16 and 17 year olds on this team, it’s not an irrelevant fact.

As an umpire you are a uniformed authority figure.

The coach, as adult, disrespected you.

These young men see this.

By not administering some form of discipline you are sending a message to DISRESPECT a uniformed authority figure.

Next inning you will have a 16 year old doing the same as his role model- CUSSING you!

Think of the dugout chatter after an ejection vs letting it go.

I would rather have a “reputation†as uniformed authority figure that demands and/or commands respect vs some guy wearing a uniform that lets people disrespect him.

This is how we train our young umpires

Choose your role @Matt @Thunderheads

Sounds like @CricketChapman has chosen his.

[Replacematt]

Further

Even though this is 18U rec you MAY have 15, 16 and 17 year olds on this team, it’s not an irrelevant fact.

As an umpire you are a uniformed authority figure.

The coach, as adult, disrespected you.

These young men see this.

By not administering some form of discipline you are sending a message to DISRESPECT a uniformed authority figure.

Next inning you will have a 16 year old doing the same as his role model- CUSSING you!

Think of the dugout chatter after an ejection vs letting it go.

I would rather have a “reputation†as uniformed authority figure that demands and/or commands respect vs some guy wearing a uniform that lets people disrespect him.

This is how we train our young umpires

Choose your role @Matt @Thunderheads

Sounds like @CricketChapman has chosen his.

He did not disrespect me, unless you are considering the mere act of disagreement as being disrespect, in which case, again, we need to toss everyone.

[BigUmpire]

"he says, "He was safe anyways and that's bullsh*t."

 

WOW- if that is NOT disrespectful- WHAT is? 

 

 

This can go on for a while SOOO we agree to disagree.

[Replacematt]

WOW- if that is NOT disrespectful- WHAT is?

"You're horseSH*#."

"You don't know what you're doing."

"I wish we had someone competent out here."

etc.

[tjwoelfel13]

With all due respect I'm with Thunderheads and Matt on this one. 

 

I don't have an ejection here. The profanity was directed at the call and not at the umpire. Now if he said You're bullsh*# I might have an ejection depending on the volume but not in this case.  At 18u I think that profanity as long as it is not overused, super loud, or directed at the umpire is not an ejection. 

[Thunderheads]

With all due respect I'm with Thunderheads and Matt on this one. 

 

I don't have an ejection here. The profanity was directed at the call and not at the umpire. Now if he said You're bullsh*# I might have an ejection depending on the volume but not in this case.  At 18u I think that profanity as long as it is not overused, super loud, or directed at the umpire is not an ejection. 

YES!!!

That's an EJ all day ....... and while I don't think "that's bull$h!t is respsectful, ...it's NOT personal, and I'm shutting down immediately.  If he were to continue ... boom!

[BigUmpire]

 

With all due respect I'm with Thunderheads and Matt on this one. 

 

I don't have an ejection here. The profanity was directed at the call and not at the umpire. Now if he said You're bullsh*# I might have an ejection depending on the volume but not in this case.  At 18u I think that profanity as long as it is not overused, super loud, or directed at the umpire is not an ejection. 

YES!!!

That's an EJ all day ....... and while I don't think "that's bull$h!t is respsectful, ...it's NOT personal, and I'm shutting down immediately.  If he were to continue ... boom!

 

 

 

"If he were to continue ... boom!"

He will.

[umpcoachfather]

2 points  - Bullsh%$ and Horseshi^ are the 2 #1 words in baseball.  If they are directed at the play/call there's no ejection. At an umpire - gonzo.  Also, youth league- coaches cursing loud enough for others to hear, I may eject.  Also, if he runs toward me, he may get the heave-ho before he says one word.  You do not charge an official.  and finally - he's arguing judgement calls, L8R. 

[Jocko]

With all due respect I'm with Thunderheads and Matt on this one. 

 

I don't have an ejection here. The profanity was directed at the call and not at the umpire. Now if he said You're bullsh*# I might have an ejection depending on the volume but not in this case.  At 18u I think that profanity as long as it is not overused, super loud, or directed at the umpire is not an ejection.

YES!!!

That's an EJ all day ....... and while I don't think "that's bull$h!t is respsectful, ...it's NOT personal, and I'm shutting down immediately.  If he were to continue ... boom!

 

 

"If he were to continue ... boom!"

He will.

While I agree that it's LIKELY that he will continue, I'm not a precog and this isn't Minortiy Report. "THAT'S BULLSH!T" isn't ejection material in and of itself. Especially if he's muttering under his breath (not stated his volume or demeanor). My reply would be along the lines of, "No, John. It's not bullSH*#. Now let's play."

[maven]

My reply would be along the lines of, "No, John. It's not bullSH*#. Now let's play."

IIRC, coach said this while walking away. IMO, it therefore requires no reply: you've both gotten what you wanted (him: venting, you: him off the field), so let's play ball.

 

Of course, if he's just standing there waiting for a reply, yours works.

[Jocko]

Right. If he's walking away, let him.

[NCAAump2]

I agree with others who have said they would not eject here. The coach was cursing the call, not the umpire. Two completely different situations. Perhaps this coach was trying to see how far he could push you. I probably wouldn't have even said anything to him. If he's going to walk away, fine by me. Just my two cents. YMMV