Doubled off first - why is it a force out?

[nicshow]

My partner ruled that a runner returning to 1st after a caught fly ball had to be tagged because the force had been removed. I know that is wrong - that it is a force play on the runner returning to 1st but I can't verify with any rule why that is.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Nic

[ALStripes17]

My partner ruled that a runner returning to 1st after a caught fly ball had to be tagged because the force had been removed. I know that is wrong - that it is a force play on the runner returning to 1st but I can't verify with any rule why that is.

Can anyone help?

Nic

It's not a force play. It is an appeal play.

[nicshow]

Can you point me to a relevant rule?

[Rich Ives]

Can you point me to a relevant rule?

 

A force play is when a runner must leave a base because the batter became a runner. Once the batter was out on the caught fly the runner that was on first is no longer required to leave the base. Thus he is not forced. Thus it is not a force play.

 

It's in rule 2.00 in OBR. See especially the comment: (emphasis added by me)

 

Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out.

Runner on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches

first baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpire’s judgment, the runner

from third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts.

 

 

 

Appeal plays are in 7.10 in OBR. For your play it is 7.10(a ) (emphasis added by me)

 

7.10 Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when—

(a) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged;

 

 

 

So your partner was wrong about having to tag the runner - but it isn't a force play.

[Jocko]

NFHS 8-2-6-b "In all games an appeal may be made during live ball by any fielder in possession of the ball touching the base missed or left too soon on a caught fly ball, or by tagging the runner......."

@nicshow

OBR 7.08(d) "He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder."

[nicshow]

Thank you. Very helpful!

[Jocko]

@nicshow - I recommend you advise your partner what the definition of a force is. I won't type it all, but you can reference NFHS 2-29-3 & OBR 2.00.

In short order, a force is when a runner loses his right to a base by the batter becoming a batter-runner. A runner is forced to advance, never forced to return.

[maven]

Well isn't that grand: you're both wrong!

 

Him: no, the fielder is not required to tag the runner trying to retouch.

You: no, it's not a force play.

 

Everyone gets to learn something today.

[JaxRolo]

This should not even be a question. This is Umpiring 101. No excuse to get this one wrong.

[Majordave]

Damn Rolando!

 

You are a hard motherF*#Ker today!

[JaxRolo]

Damn Rolando!

 

You are a hard motherF*#Ker today!

Considering I was in a car accident and I am going through Physical Therapy for Neck and back problems. Then on Monday I get an infected tooth and had to go to the ER in the middle of the night.

 

I haven't been able to Umpire in a couple of weeks. It all has taken a toll!!!!

 

I called my assignor this morning and told him to get me some games!!!!

[blue23ll]

What does your tooth have to do with umpiring? Suck it up, buttercup!!

[Majordave]

You're sounding kinda namby-pamby to me. Just sayin'......

Hope you get well soon. Flowers are on the way sweetheart.

[Mark Pepper]

@JaxRolo -- Would it help if some of us called you to argue a call?  You can run me if you want to.  I'll use some magic words....

[BalkHawk]

Everyone gets to learn something today.

When the pitch is coming in, try opening your eyelids.

Good question, @nicshow. Check out the threads on books like Jacksa/Roder and Jim Evans' rules index. You will find the same answers, but without any condescending attitude.

Study real hard and one day you can have the most 'best answers' to questions that weren't worth asking on an internet forum!

[maven]

@BalkHawk, with all due respect, you're misreading my attitude. When I say something I know is correct, I'm not learning anything. When I get it wrong and someone corrects me, I get to learn something.

 

I've dedicated my working life to learning things, so I don't think it's a failing to be wrong.

 

It's a failing to remain wrong.

[Jocko]

The measure of a man is not how many times he gets knocked down. Rather how many times he gets back up.

No idea why @maven words made me think of this.

[Majordave]

'Cause we'll come back Ali-ive. Only the strong survive!