Verbal OBS?

[VolUmp]

Bases Loaded ... new batter.

Pitcher bounces one about 8 feet in front of the plate, ball bounces up onto the ledge of the backstop.

Catcher can't find it.  All three runners advance.

Defensive coach, in full voice yells, "Dead Ball!!  It's hung up in the net."

Both remaining runners stop running.

Catcher walks back to the ledge and picks up the ball (which was not wrapped in the net).

Neither of us ever called TIME.

 

Before I say how we ruled, would love some discussion.

Ground rule stated that if the ball was hung up in the net from a pitch, we would kill it if no one went fishing for it and book runners one base.

[alex7]

Oooh, this is a good one!  Can't think of any rules specifically for this...Treating it as spectator interference where I can place runners as I see fit...R3 has already scored, I'm scoring R2 as well and putting R1 at 3rd.  .  Coach is getting a stern warning, and a quick EJ if he doesn't handle that warning with the utmost timidity and apologeticness (think I made that word up).  Similar penalty to a coach shouting "that's a balk!" perhaps trying to induce one, in neither situation do we know the motive.

[BigUmpire]

Bumper sticker from the great one:

 

 â€œNo, there does not need to be contact for interference -.mstaylor

[ricka56]

I think Fed 2-22 and 8-3-2 (verbal obstruction) can be applied. Place runners accordingly.

[maven]

OK, so 2 possibilities:

 

1. The ball was live and in play (coach can't kill it)

2. The ball was in fact lodged and thus dead, even though no umpire had yet so ruled

 

If (1), then you likely have verbal OBS. But the ball is not dead until the end of playing action. I might just let this play out: the ball is, after all, live, so let it go. The offense won't mind, because they're going to get at least 1 base out of it on the verbal OBS, and the defense gets what they deserve.

 

If (2), then you were about to kill it and award a base anyway.

 

Either way, I see much the same result.

[Rich Ives]

The groundrule sounds illegal.  Why allow it?

[VolUmp]

The groundrule sounds illegal. Why allow it?

Rich. Please explain.

This is a standard ground rule when there's a loose net behind the plate.

[Replacematt]

 

The groundrule sounds illegal. Why allow it?

Rich. Please explain.

This is a standard ground rule when there's a loose net behind the plate.

 

 

It conflicts with a book rule (at least on non-pitched balls.)

[VolUmp]

I'm indeed referring to pitched balls.

I see the confusion.

Sorry.

[Rich Ives]

 

The groundrule sounds illegal. Why allow it?

Rich. Please explain.

This is a standard ground rule when there's a loose net behind the plate.

 

 

Groundrules cannot conflict with playing rules.  If the ball isn't lodged then it should be in play.

[noumpere]

 

 

The groundrule sounds illegal. Why allow it?

Rich. Please explain.

This is a standard ground rule when there's a loose net behind the plate.

 

 

It conflicts with a book rule (at least on non-pitched balls.)

 

I'm sure there's an obvious answer, but I can't think of it -- what book rule conflicts?

[VolUmp]

C'mon, Rich ...

Wrapped up in the net = lodged.

This a very standard ground rule.

[Rich Ives]

C'mon, Rich ...

Wrapped up in the net = lodged.

This a very standard ground rule.

 

Wrapped up in a net is lodged.

 

BUT!

 

OP:  "Catcher walks back to the ledge and picks up the ball (which was not wrapped in the net)."

 

This one was just sitting on a ledge, not wrapped in the net. It should be in play.

 

Wanna try again?

[VolUmp]

Rich,

 

As clever as you think you are being, you are missing the ENTIRE point.

 

YOU challenged the ground rule, not my OP.

 

I clearly stated the ball was NOT lodged in my OP.

I stated the ground rule to point out why the coach may have erroneously yelled what he did,

 

Then YOU challenged the ground rule ... erroniously.

 

 

You're not going to tell me as many years as you've coached that you haven't been faced with this very standard ground rule dozens of times. 

Nets get loose.  Every park follows the same ground rule when a ball gets wrapped up.

You have stood at the plate meeting and agreed to this ground rule many times.

 

 

NOW ... do you wish to state how you would handle the play and get off the ground rule?

The ground rule does not apply to this sitch.

[Rich Ives]

Rich,

 

As clever as you think you are being, you are missing the ENTIRE point.

 

YOU challenged the ground rule, not my OP.

 

I clearly stated the ball was NOT lodged in my OP.

I stated the ground rule to point out why the coach may have erroneously yelled what he did,

 

Then YOU challenged the ground rule ... erroniously.

 

 

You're not going to tell me as many years as you've coached that you haven't been faced with this very standard ground rule dozens of times. 

Nets get loose.  Every park follows the same ground rule when a ball gets wrapped up.

You have stood at the plate meeting and agreed to this ground rule many times.

 

 

NOW ... do you wish to state how you would handle the play and get off the ground rule?

The ground rule does not apply to this sitch.

 

 

FED 4-1-2  "Ground rules do not supersede a rules book rule. "

 

On THIS play the ball was not lodged and no ground rule can legally declare it lodged.  The ball is in play.

 

And no, I have never encountered a ground rule that says a playable ball inside the fence is dead.

[blue23ll]

We aren't talking about a lodged ball here, Rich, we are talking about what the coach did. It is clear to me that the ball was NEVER lodged at all. The question is, is what the coach did verbal obstruction (in FED)?

[Mike Prince]

 

Rich,

 

As clever as you think you are being, you are missing the ENTIRE point.

 

YOU challenged the ground rule, not my OP.

 

I clearly stated the ball was NOT lodged in my OP.

I stated the ground rule to point out why the coach may have erroneously yelled what he did,

 

Then YOU challenged the ground rule ... erroniously.

 

 

You're not going to tell me as many years as you've coached that you haven't been faced with this very standard ground rule dozens of times. 

Nets get loose.  Every park follows the same ground rule when a ball gets wrapped up.

You have stood at the plate meeting and agreed to this ground rule many times.

 

 

NOW ... do you wish to state how you would handle the play and get off the ground rule?

The ground rule does not apply to this sitch.

 

 

FED 4-1-2  "Ground rules do not supersede a rules book rule. "

 

On THIS play the ball was not lodged and no ground rule can legally declare it lodged.  The ball is in play.

 

 

And it seems that this is the same point clearly being made in the OP.  It was not lodged but you have DC yelling that it is which stopped two runners in their tracks.

 

Sorry, too many getting involved in pissing matches on here lately rather than answering actual questions asked and situations presented...and to avoid being one of them, I concur with @maven post...

[VolUmp]

I thought this thread would inspire some legit discussion.  I've never seen this before.

I was wrong ... it has taken a wrong turn with one poster being unable or unwilling to read.

 

My ruling:  Verbal OBS.

 

R1 placed at 3rd (on OBS).

R2 scored (on OBS).

R3 had already scored on the wild pitch.

Coach restricted to the dugout.

 

Not that this affects the ruling, but the coach recognized his error and apologized.

No argument on the restriction.

And yes, I see the irony in restricting a coach to the dugout ... which is from whence he created the OBS in the first place ...

[Replacematt]

 

 

 

The groundrule sounds illegal. Why allow it?

Rich. Please explain.

This is a standard ground rule when there's a loose net behind the plate.

 

 

It conflicts with a book rule (at least on non-pitched balls.)

 

I'm sure there's an obvious answer, but I can't think of it -- what book rule conflicts?

 

 

No, I missed the part where he said "from a pitch." I thought they were giving one base on ANY ball hung up in the net.