Fed Quiz Question

[grayhawk]

R1 and R2, both stealing on the pitch, 0 outs. Batter swings and then interferes with catcher's attempt to throw to 3rd. Catcher regroups and throws to 2nd. The throw is in time to get R1 out. R2 rounds 3rd and comes home where he is safe. 

 

a) A.) Call “time†as soon as the batter interferes. The batter is out and the runners return to 

1st and 2nd.

b) B.) The play stands.

c) C.) Call “time†as soon as R1 is out at 2nd. Batter stays at bat and R2 stays at 3rd.

d) D.) The coach has the option of taking the result of the play or calling the batter out and 

returning both runners.

[UmpJM]

OMG. Really???

 

The correct answer is not provided in the choices.

 

They want "B". (idjits)

 

JM

[maven]

I think they want (a).

 

And I think they're (approximately) right. My only quibble is calling time "as soon as" the batter interferes. We should call time when F2 aborts his initial attempt to retire R2 as a result of the BI.

 

7.3.5 A

[UmpJM]

maven,

 

Concur with when we should call time.

 

Bet you a beer on what the answer key says.

 

JM

[grayhawk]

Thank you both for confirming my feelings about the available answers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grayhawk]

By the way, I answered "A" and got it wrong.  I felt it was the "least incorrect" answer from those available.  I am certain that they are using 5-1-2a1 to justify "B" as the correct answer because it mentions a throw:

 

When a batter interferes with the catcher attempting a play on a runner, if an out does not result at the end of the catcher's throw, the ball shall become dead immediately.

 

Of course, we all know that a throw is not necessary for BI to be called, so when F2 is interfered with during his attempted play in R2 stealing third, the subsequent throw to retire R1 at second never happened.  We should call time when F2's attempted play in R2 is interfered with.

 

To allow R2 to score, when an attempted play on him is interfered with, would be a huge penalty to the defense - even though they were able to retire another runner.

[grayhawk]

Also, I think the following from 7-3-5 Penalty clouds the issue:

 

When an attempt to put out a runner at any other base is unsuccessful, the batter is out and all runners must return to bases occupied at the time of the pitch.

 

The person that wrote the question could claim that since the defense was successful in putting out R1 ("any" other runner), then the play stands.

[FlaUmp22]

OMG. Really???

 

The correct answer is not provided in the choices.

 

They want "B". (idjits)

 

JM

 

OH SH*#! Someone call NFHS   

[grayhawk]

Then I find this from the 2011 BRD:

 

R1, R3, 0 outs.  R1 attempts to steal, and the batter interferes with the catcher's throw.  R3 scores as the ball goes into centerfield.  R1 next attempts to advance to third and is thrown out.

 

Ruling:  In FED, the play stands.  In NCAA/OBR, when the catcher's throw does not directly retire R1, the ball is dead.  The batter is out and R3 returns to third.

 

5-1-2a1 clearly makes the above ruling for FED incorrect.  Anyone have a later version of the BRD to see if this FED ruling is still there?  It's Section 273 in the 2011 BRD.

[noumpere]

Does FED have the "if the INITIAL THROW retires the runner" clause that's in other codes?  (I can't remember at the moment, and I'm away from the books)

[grayhawk]

Does FED have the "if the INITIAL THROW retires the runner" clause that's in other codes? (I can't remember at the moment, and I'm away from the books)

It says "at the end of the catcher's throw." A throw from F8 to retire R1 at third would not be at the end of the catcher's throw.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dash Riprock]

Does FED have the "if the INITIAL THROW retires the runner" clause that's in other codes?  (I can't remember at the moment, and I'm away from the books)

Effectively, yes.  The rule says "when an attempt to put out a runner...is unsuccessful, the batter is out and all runners must return..."

 

As soon as there is an unsuccessful attempt (either F2 attempts a throw but doesn't complete it, or F2 gets off a throw which does not directly retire a runner), the ball is dead.

[noumpere]

 

Does FED have the "if the INITIAL THROW retires the runner" clause that's in other codes?  (I can't remember at the moment, and I'm away from the books)

Effectively, yes.  The rule says "when an attempt to put out a runner...is unsuccessful, the batter is out and all runners must return..."

 

As soon as there is an unsuccessful attempt (either F2 attempts a throw but doesn't complete it, or F2 gets off a throw which does not directly retire a runner), the ball is dead.

 

Thank you.  I'm remembering less and less these days.

[grayhawk]

 

Does FED have the "if the INITIAL THROW retires the runner" clause that's in other codes?  (I can't remember at the moment, and I'm away from the books)

Effectively, yes.  The rule says "when an attempt to put out a runner...is unsuccessful, the batter is out and all runners must return..."

 

As soon as there is an unsuccessful attempt (either F2 attempts a throw but doesn't complete it, or F2 gets off a throw which does not directly retire a runner), the ball is dead.

 

 

@Dash Riprock, I agree with you, but feel the "at any other base" part of the rule clouds the issue.  Thoughts?

[noumpere]

 

 

Does FED have the "if the INITIAL THROW retires the runner" clause that's in other codes?  (I can't remember at the moment, and I'm away from the books)

Effectively, yes.  The rule says "when an attempt to put out a runner...is unsuccessful, the batter is out and all runners must return..."

 

As soon as there is an unsuccessful attempt (either F2 attempts a throw but doesn't complete it, or F2 gets off a throw which does not directly retire a runner), the ball is dead.

 

 

@Dash Riprock, I agree with you, but feel the "at any other base" part of the rule clouds the issue.  Thoughts?

 

I don't think that clouds it -- they just mean "other than at home" because who is out is different.

[bam]

Then I find this from the 2011 BRD:

 

 

 

R1, R3, 0 outs.  R1 attempts to steal, and the batter interferes with the catcher's throw.  R3 scores as the ball goes into centerfield.  R1 next attempts to advance to third and is thrown out.

 

Ruling:  In FED, the play stands.  In NCAA/OBR, when the catcher's throw does not directly retire R1, the ball is dead.  The batter is out and R3 returns to third.

 

5-1-2a1 clearly makes the above ruling for FED incorrect.  Anyone have a later version of the BRD to see if this FED ruling is still there?  It's Section 273 in the 2011 BRD

 

The 2012 BRD has the same case play, except it's section 274.  However, in this example the play is being made on R1, was unsuccessful and, consequently, the play would stand.  In your test question the initial attempt was on R2, then on R1.  I don't see how any of the answers are correct.  

[UmpJM]

 

Then I find this from the 2011 BRD:

 

 

 

R1, R3, 0 outs.  R1 attempts to steal, and the batter interferes with the catcher's throw.  R3 scores as the ball goes into centerfield.  R1 next attempts to advance to third and is thrown out.

 

Ruling:  In FED, the play stands.  In NCAA/OBR, when the catcher's throw does not directly retire R1, the ball is dead.  The batter is out and R3 returns to third.

 

5-1-2a1 clearly makes the above ruling for FED incorrect.  Anyone have a later version of the BRD to see if this FED ruling is still there?  It's Section 273 in the 2011 BRD

 

The 2012 BRD has the same case play, except it's section 274.  However, in this example the play is being made on R1, was unsuccessful and, consequently, the play would stand.  In your test question the initial attempt was on R2, then on R1.  I don't see how any of the answers are correct.  

 

 

bam,

 

That's probably because none of them is correct.

 

JM

[grayhawk]

 

Then I find this from the 2011 BRD:

 

 

 

R1, R3, 0 outs.  R1 attempts to steal, and the batter interferes with the catcher's throw.  R3 scores as the ball goes into centerfield.  R1 next attempts to advance to third and is thrown out.

 

Ruling:  In FED, the play stands.  In NCAA/OBR, when the catcher's throw does not directly retire R1, the ball is dead.  The batter is out and R3 returns to third.

 

5-1-2a1 clearly makes the above ruling for FED incorrect.  Anyone have a later version of the BRD to see if this FED ruling is still there?  It's Section 273 in the 2011 BRD

 

The 2012 BRD has the same case play, except it's section 274.  However, in this example the play is being made on R1, was unsuccessful and, consequently, the play would stand.  In your test question the initial attempt was on R2, then on R1.  I don't see how any of the answers are correct.  

 

 

I disagree that the play would stand.  The runner was not put out "at the end of the catcher's throw" so at that point, time should be called and no other play happened.

[maven]

bam,

 

That's probably because none of them is correct.

 

JM

The important thing is: one of them is best.

[UmpJM]

Well, depends what you mean by "best"....  ;-)

 

JM

[grayhawk]

Well, the "best" answer was wrong...

[Umpgreg]

Rule7-4-5 only mentions unsuccessful plays at another base. Since the out was made at 2B, B) Play stands.

[UmpJM]

Umpgreg,

 

I presume you mean 7-3-5.

 

That's not exactly what it says.

 

What about the unsuccessful attempt at 3B?

 

You appear to have all the qualifications necessary to be a FED test writer.

 

JM

[noumpere]

Rule7-4-5 only mentions unsuccessful plays at another base. Since the out was made at 2B, B) Play stands.

Your taking the sentence out of context.  You need to read it in conjunction with the previous sentence (or two prior) that says "when the play is at the plate ...."

[maven]

Umpgreg,

...

You appear to have all the qualifications necessary to be a FED test writer.

JM

Oh, snap!