3 man U1 Position

[zoops]

3 man crew, R1, less than 2 outs.  Shallow fly ball hit to right center field.  Ball ends up being caught and a throw comes to 1st as R1 had gotten too far off.  Where would you recommend positioning yourself as U1 on this play?

[noumpere]

3 man crew, R1, less than 2 outs.  Shallow fly ball hit to right center field.  Ball ends up being caught and a throw comes to 1st as R1 had gotten too far off.  Where would you recommend positioning yourself as U1 on this play?

 

Who had the catch?  Since it wasn't trouble (or U1 would have gone out), I'll assume U3.  In that instance, U1 can get to about the coaches box to take this play.

 

If your mechanics have U1 on the ball even if it's not trouble, then you're going to have to take this from the foul line and hope its not a swipe tag on the back side.

[ALStripes17]

3 man crew, R1, less than 2 outs. Shallow fly ball hit to right center field. Ball ends up being caught and a throw comes to 1st as R1 had gotten too far off. Where would you recommend positioning yourself as U1 on this play?

Aren't there a few schools of thought (mechanic differences) on this?

I like the U1 going out on anything in that 50% of the field to ensure catch/no catch (CF -> RF line). U3 is inside and can handle appeal duties.

[noumpere]

 

Aren't there a few schools of thought (mechanic differences) on this?

I like the U1 going out on anything in that 50% of the field to ensure catch/no catch (CF -> RF line). U3 is inside and can handle appeal duties.

 

Yes there are different schools of thought.

 

My thought -- if your qualified enough to do three man, your qualified enough to pause-read-and-react and theres no need to go out on everything.

 

Or maybe I have it backwards -- you should be qualified to PRR before you work three man.  I do recognize that some aren't.

[ALStripes17]

Of course.

My thought is that with only 1 runner on, there is no reason for U1 not to go out. You have 2 other umpires to cover the R1 and BR (before a possible catch).

Always looks better to have a guy on top of the play, if possible.

Or you could be a heathen, use NCAA mechanics, and cross the baselines ;)

[JaxRolo]

Of course.

My thought is that with only 1 runner on, there is no reason for U1 not to go out. You have 2 other umpires to cover the R1 and BR (before a possible catch).

Always looks better to have a guy on top of the play, if possible.

Or you could be a heathen, use NCAA mechanics, and cross the baselines

I thought that was only MLB OBR?  Just asking. I don't know.

 

I do know that a AAA Umpire buddy told me the do that at their games.

[zm1283]

Of course.

My thought is that with only 1 runner on, there is no reason for U1 not to go out. You have 2 other umpires to cover the R1 and BR (before a possible catch).

Always looks better to have a guy on top of the play, if possible.

Or you could be a heathen, use NCAA mechanics, and cross the baselines

 

They cross the baselines in 3-man in professional mechanics as well. 

 

The pro mechanic has the wing umpire going on on every fly ball in his area with no runners on or with only one runner on. That would mean U1 would go out and U3 would have the play back into first base.

 

The CCA mechanic has U3 taking the routine catch (It is routine and not a trouble ball since U1 didn't go out) and U1 has the play back into first. 

 

Either one are fine, you just need to know what you're doing going into the game.

[zm1283]

 

Of course.

My thought is that with only 1 runner on, there is no reason for U1 not to go out. You have 2 other umpires to cover the R1 and BR (before a possible catch).

Always looks better to have a guy on top of the play, if possible.

Or you could be a heathen, use NCAA mechanics, and cross the baselines

I thought that was only MLB OBR?  Just asking. I don't know.

 

I do know that a AAA Umpire buddy told me the do that at their games.

 

 

Both professional and college umpires go out from the middle. 

[gclg2000]

Ignoring the trajectory of the fly ball, consider this possibility:

 

Without seeing the play when you say shallow I would assume a ball that the F4 could catch or F9 could come in and catch.

 

Something to consider when reading a fly ball is will the flight/location of the ball cause 2-3 converging fielders.

I've worked a lot of 3 man with guys (new and and experienced at 3 man) that get lazy and only read the fly ball and not the fielders.  These situations can turn from "routine" to "trouble" and if you hook instead of go out you're burnt.

 

How many times have you seen "I've got it, I've got it" and then either no one catches it or the confusion causes a last second reach, shoe-string and/or fall down/dive catch on the "routine" fly ball.

 

In situations like this, I always go out to protect against this possibility and all of my partners at my level usually do as well.

 

It's too easy for U3 to slide over and get a terrific angle on a put out in this situation coming from F9 or F8.  It's more work in my opinion for U1 to hook back around (if there is enough time) to get a similar angle as U3 could get with just a few steps.

If U1 goes out then you have someone hustling out on the catch and that looks good and better protects the crew from hoopla.

 

In my $0.02 (if you choose to consider it), U1 just going out on this is not only easier, but safer to not blunder something and covers all possibilities.

[Dash Riprock]

Ignoring the trajectory of the fly ball, consider this possibility:

 

Without seeing the play when you say shallow I would assume a ball that the F4 could catch or F9 could come in and catch.

 

Something to consider when reading a fly ball is will the flight/location of the ball cause 2-3 converging fielders.

I've worked a lot of 3 man with guys (new and and experienced at 3 man) that get lazy and only read the fly ball and not the fielders.  These situations can turn from "routine" to "trouble" and if you hook instead of go out you're burnt.

 

How many times have you seen "I've got it, I've got it" and then either no one catches it or the confusion causes a last second reach, shoe-string and/or fall down/dive catch on the "routine" fly ball.

 

In situations like this, I always go out to protect against this possibility and all of my partners at my level usually do as well.

 

It's too easy for U3 to slide over and get a terrific angle on a put out in this situation coming from F9 or F8.  It's more work in my opinion for U1 to hook back around (if there is enough time) to get a similar angle as U3 could get with just a few steps.

If U1 goes out then you have someone hustling out on the catch and that looks good and better protects the crew from hoopla.

 

In my $0.02 (if you choose to consider it), U1 just going out on this is not only easier, but safer to not blunder something and covers all possibilities.

Good stuff here.  Pause, read and 90+% of the time, U1 goes out.  This is almost always a trouble ball.

[Dash Riprock]

 

They cross the baselines in 3-man in professional mechanics as well. 

 

The pro mechanic has the wing umpire going on on every fly ball in his area with no runners on or with only one runner on. That would mean U1 would go out and U3 would have the play back into first base.

 

The CCA mechanic has U3 taking the routine catch (It is routine and not a trouble ball since U1 didn't go out) and U1 has the play back into first. 

 

Either one are fine, you just need to know what you're doing going into the game.

 

Right.  And U3 reads U1.

[zoops]

Thanks guys.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Take this play just like you would take a play on a ground ball in the infield. so get out like it hits to the 2nd baseman, and try this, you'll be amazed how well you see the runner sliding in and the ball coming. going into foul you will be blocked out and when exactly the runner touched the base.

[MidAmUmp]

Something to consider when reading a fly ball is will the flight/location of the ball cause 2-3 converging fielders.

I've worked a lot of 3 man with guys (new and and experienced at 3 man) that get lazy and only read the fly ball and not the fielders. 

This is the key to the whole thing.  Converging fielders constitutes going out.  I agree, too many umpires read the ball and not the fielders.  You only need to see the ball off the bat to know the direction it's going and how hard it's hit.  After that, if it's in your coverage area, turn and read your fielders.  If they are converging, you need to go out.

 

Take this play just like you would take a play on a ground ball in the infield. so get out like it hits to the 2nd baseman, and try this, you'll be amazed how well you see the runner sliding in and the ball coming. going into foul you will be blocked out and when exactly the runner touched the base.

I'd rather take it from the front corner of the coach's box, which is the opposite angle you are describing.  I can keep everything in front of me from that angle.  I don't want to have to turn with the ball and have the play explode on me.  The only time I would do as you suggest is if I've had to pause/read longer and can't now get to the coaches box.

 

If the throw is coming from an infielder, then yes, I would take it as I would any play on the infield.

[Platejob29]

Said the ball was hit to to right center meaning it's still within the coverage of U3. While the ball is in the air U1 should be lining up the "tag" anyway. If he does that properly then he should already be in prefect position for the play coming back into first. At most he would have to do from there would be take a read step or two but that's it.

[Dash Riprock]

Said the ball was hit to to right center meaning it's still within the coverage of U3. While the ball is in the air U1 should be lining up the "tag" anyway. If he does that properly then he should already be in prefect position for the play coming back into first. At most he would have to do from there would be take a read step or two but that's it.

It's U3's only if U1 doesn't go out.  U1 is the boss, U3 reads U1.  U1's first job is to read the ball/fielders.

[Replacematt]

PU's catch if not a trouble ball. U3 has plays to 2B and front side of 1B. U1 has plays to back side and foul side of 1B.

[Platejob29]

 

Said the ball was hit to to right center meaning it's still within the coverage of U3. While the ball is in the air U1 should be lining up the "tag" anyway. If he does that properly then he should already be in prefect position for the play coming back into first. At most he would have to do from there would be take a read step or two but that's it.

It's U3's only if U1 doesn't go out.  U1 is the boss, U3 reads U1.  U1's first job is to read the ball/fielders.

 

Why would U1 be going out on a ball hit to right center? Even if it's a trouble ball U3 would have the coverage on that if it's within the "V". At least that's how we run the pro mechanic.

[Dash Riprock]

PU's catch if not a trouble ball.

The only (outfield) catch PU has is a trouble ball with F7 moving towards the line.  U1 has all trouble balls from F8 straight in or back to the RF line,.  U3 has all other trouble balls and all 'routine' catches in the V.  At least that's the college mechanic.  Dunno the pro mechanic.  FED probably has 2 umpires going out.

[Replacematt]

 

PU's catch if not a trouble ball.

The only (outfield) catch PU has is a trouble ball with F7 moving towards the line.  U1 has all trouble balls from F8 straight in or back to the RF line,.  U3 has all other trouble balls and all 'routine' catches in the V.  At least that's the college mechanic.  Dunno the pro mechanic.  FED probably has 2 umpires going out.

 

 

You did actually read my post, right? 

[maven]

 

 

PU's catch if not a trouble ball.

The only (outfield) catch PU has is a trouble ball with F7 moving towards the line.  U1 has all trouble balls from F8 straight in or back to the RF line,.  U3 has all other trouble balls and all 'routine' catches in the V.  At least that's the college mechanic.  Dunno the pro mechanic.  FED probably has 2 umpires going out.

 

 

You did actually read my post, right? 

 

Waited till after midnight this morning to post that one.

[Dash Riprock]

 

 

PU's catch if not a trouble ball.

The only (outfield) catch PU has is a trouble ball with F7 moving towards the line.  U1 has all trouble balls from F8 straight in or back to the RF line,.  U3 has all other trouble balls and all 'routine' catches in the V.  At least that's the college mechanic.  Dunno the pro mechanic.  FED probably has 2 umpires going out.

 

 

You did actually read my post, right? 

 

I quoted it.  Ok I give up.  Help me out - what did I miss?

[zm1283]

 

 

Said the ball was hit to to right center meaning it's still within the coverage of U3. While the ball is in the air U1 should be lining up the "tag" anyway. If he does that properly then he should already be in prefect position for the play coming back into first. At most he would have to do from there would be take a read step or two but that's it.

It's U3's only if U1 doesn't go out.  U1 is the boss, U3 reads U1.  U1's first job is to read the ball/fielders.

 

Why would U1 be going out on a ball hit to right center? Even if it's a trouble ball U3 would have the coverage on that if it's within the "V". At least that's how we run the pro mechanic.

 

 

Is this April Fool's too?

 

The pro coverage is the same as the NCAA coverage, except the criteria for going out is different. Like I said, in the pro version, U1 would automatically go out since the ball is hit in his coverage area (F8 straight in/back or toward RF line) and only one runner is on. So, U1 has the catch/no catch and U3 has R1 back into first or any plays at second. 

 

 

 

PU's catch if not a trouble ball.

The only (outfield) catch PU has is a trouble ball with F7 moving towards the line.  U1 has all trouble balls from F8 straight in or back to the RF line,.  U3 has all other trouble balls and all 'routine' catches in the V.  At least that's the college mechanic.  Dunno the pro mechanic.  FED probably has 2 umpires going out.

 

 

You did actually read my post, right? 

 

I quoted it.  Ok I give up.  Help me out - what did I miss?

 

 

Check the time stamp on his post and the date related to that time.

[noumpere]

 

 

Said the ball was hit to to right center meaning it's still within the coverage of U3. While the ball is in the air U1 should be lining up the "tag" anyway. If he does that properly then he should already be in prefect position for the play coming back into first. At most he would have to do from there would be take a read step or two but that's it.

It's U3's only if U1 doesn't go out.  U1 is the boss, U3 reads U1.  U1's first job is to read the ball/fielders.

 

Why would U1 be going out on a ball hit to right center? Even if it's a trouble ball U3 would have the coverage on that if it's within the "V". At least that's how we run the pro mechanic.

 

As indicated way back in post#2, there are different mechanics on this.  Some give U3 the small V.  Some give U3 the big V.  Some give U3 the big V if it's routine, but U1 the balls on the right side if it's trouble.  Some send U1 out if it's his ball.  Some have U1 stay there if it's his and routine, but he still has plays back to first.  Some have U3 go out from the middle; some have U3 never crossing the baselines.

 

So when the OP asks "where does U1 go?" the answer is "it depends."  And, you always need to read your partners in case they dont do what you expect them to. 

[Platejob29]

 

Ignoring the trajectory of the fly ball, consider this possibility:

 

Without seeing the play when you say shallow I would assume a ball that the F4 could catch or F9 could come in and catch.

 

Something to consider when reading a fly ball is will the flight/location of the ball cause 2-3 converging fielders.

I've worked a lot of 3 man with guys (new and and experienced at 3 man) that get lazy and only read the fly ball and not the fielders.  These situations can turn from "routine" to "trouble" and if you hook instead of go out you're burnt.

 

How many times have you seen "I've got it, I've got it" and then either no one catches it or the confusion causes a last second reach, shoe-string and/or fall down/dive catch on the "routine" fly ball.

 

In situations like this, I always go out to protect against this possibility and all of my partners at my level usually do as well.

 

It's too easy for U3 to slide over and get a terrific angle on a put out in this situation coming from F9 or F8.  It's more work in my opinion for U1 to hook back around (if there is enough time) to get a similar angle as U3 could get with just a few steps.

If U1 goes out then you have someone hustling out on the catch and that looks good and better protects the crew from hoopla.

 

In my $0.02 (if you choose to consider it), U1 just going out on this is not only easier, but safer to not blunder something and covers all possibilities.

Good stuff here.  Pause, read and 90+% of the time, U1 goes out.  This is almost always a trouble ball.

 

Even if it's a trouble ball it's still U3s ball. U1 shouldn't be going out when the ball is hit anywhere near center or anywhere inside of the right fielder with a runner on first. If it's a trouble ball U3 can bust the line and go out to make the call while U1 can go into the library and read the play for possible tag up or for a possible play into first. This is how we do it in pro ball.