Deliberately thrown bat vs. malicious contact penalty

[Pops]

Rule 3-3-m/penalty and case study 3.3.1 V (deliberately thrown bat) indicate that the offender is ejected but not out. 

Rule 3-3-n/penalty and case study 3.3.1 AA (malicious contact) indicate that the offender is ejected and out.

 

Also the intentionally thrown bat is a DDB but MC is a DB.  Does anyone know the background and logic to these 2 situations? A deliberately thrown bat into the catcher seems to be the same as malicious contact to me.

[VAUmp]

I agree.  I believe both should be dead ball outs.  

 

I have no idea why they aren't.

[BT_Blue]

They both have to do with safety, however, unless the bat hits F2 in an uncovered spot (of which we know there are not many but enough) medical attention could most likely wait until the end of the play. However MC often involves medical attention immediately following the contact.

I can never remember ever having someone deliberately throw a bat besides in protest to a call (Delmon Young anybody?)

[DVA7130]

Wally.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Sunday in a high school tournament, I encountered a school that employs the practice of flinging the bat in the path of the catcher as he goes to back up first with nobody on. The first one was pretty glaring, and I stepped in. When I got back to the plate circle, the catcher said "THANK you," which indicated to me that it was that team's standard practice. When it happened again, I had to make a documented team warning. When a third batter went to do it, he clearly tried to stop himself and threw it very softly, and it didn't get to the catcher, but I gave him the Sicilian stare and he crawled into a hole, so I let it go but reiterated my warning.  

 

There are teams that are just plain dirty, and it's our job to take them out of their game at first blush. I also had to step in on some taunting, posturing, and other forms of unsportsmanlike conduct by this club.

 

I got a serious taste of where they learned it: I also experienced some of the worst parental blathering I have ever heard. The best one: A batter swings at a pitch and barely nicks it--tips it, if you will. The catcher caught it, I confirmed that he caught it, and then I took the inside of my right hand and scraped it against the outside of my left hand and made a strike signal. So far, so good. The catcher faked a throw at R1. Then this warm gust from a giant 300-plus pound windbag blew at our backs. 

 

"That's a foul ball! He fouled that! He's supposed to be out! What is this? This is unbelievable! He's out! He's letting him hit! He's out! This guy's horrible! I can't believe this; this guy's taking it away from the kids!" 

 

This same blathering imbecile stalked me after the game, and claimed that he used to be an umpire, and that I am one of the worst umpires he's ever seen. (I've never been afraid of people that I can outrun, especially when I'm armed with steel-toed shoes and a titanium mask, which essentially serves as an over-sized set of brass knuckles.) As I continued to walk to my car with my somewhat shocked partner, the imbecile said, "I served in the US military and I'm ordering you to stop and address me!"

 

Well, I worked even harder to hold in an outburst of laughter than I did at his I-used-to-be-an-umpire claim. I managed not to laugh or speak, and then the AD/tournament director arrived and addressed the imbecile. If I spoke, I would have expressed relief that such a blathering imbecile is no longer an umpire (if he ever was), and more importantly, that he is no longer a soldier (if he ever was). I later learned that he had to be threatened with arrest if he continued to stalk me. 

 

What this all means is that a bat and a ball, and to a significant degree, a running athlete, can be weapons. When there is inappropriate use of any of those things, we must be emphatic in our forbidding of it. A bat thrown at a catcher is indeed rare, and that's the sole reason that the rule remains what it is. Equipment violations are still grounds for ejection. I guess I like the idea that it's not an automatic dead on a bat flinging. 

[UMP45]

Sunday in a high school tournament, I encountered a school that employs the practice of flinging the bat in the path of the catcher as he goes to back up first with nobody on. The first one was pretty glaring, and I stepped in. When I got back to the plate circle, the catcher said "THANK you," which indicated to me that it was that team's standard practice. When it happened again, I had to make a documented team warning. When a third batter went to do it, he clearly tried to stop himself and threw it very softly, and it didn't get to the catcher, but I gave him the Sicilian stare and he crawled into a hole, so I let it go but reiterated my warning.  

 

There are teams that are just plain dirty, and it's our job to take them out of their game at first blush. I also had to step in on some taunting, posturing, and other forms of unsportsmanlike conduct by this club.

 

I got a serious taste of where they learned it: I also experienced some of the worst parental blathering I have ever heard. The best one: A batter swings at a pitch and barely nicks it--tips it, if you will. The catcher caught it, I confirmed that he caught it, and then I took the inside of my right hand and scraped it against the outside of my left hand and made a strike signal. So far, so good. The catcher faked a throw at R1. Then this warm gust from a giant 300-plus pound windbag blew at our backs. 

 

"That's a foul ball! He fouled that! He's supposed to be out! What is this? This is unbelievable! He's out! He's letting him hit! He's out! This guy's horrible! I can't believe this; this guy's taking it away from the kids!" 

 

This same blathering imbecile stalked me after the game, and claimed that he used to be an umpire, and that I am one of the worst umpires he's ever seen. (I've never been afraid of people that I can outrun, especially when I'm armed with steel-toed shoes and a titanium mask, which essentially serves as an over-sized set of brass knuckles.) As I continued to walk to my car with my somewhat shocked partner, the imbecile said, "I served in the US military and I'm ordering you to stop and address me!"

 

Well, I worked even harder to hold in an outburst of laughter than I did at his I-used-to-be-an-umpire claim. I managed not to laugh or speak, and then the AD/tournament director arrived and addressed the imbecile. If I spoke, I would have expressed relief that such a blathering imbecile is no longer an umpire (if he ever was), and more importantly, that he is no longer a soldier (if he ever was). I later learned that he had to be threatened with arrest if he continued to stalk me. 

 

What this all means is that a bat and a ball, and to a significant degree, a running athlete, can be weapons. When there is inappropriate use of any of those things, we must be emphatic in our forbidding of it. A bat thrown at a catcher is indeed rare, and that's the sole reason that the rule remains what it is. Equipment violations are still grounds for ejection. I guess I like the idea that it's not an automatic dead on a bat flinging. 

Sometimes you just have to umpire.

[maven]

Rule 3-3-m/penalty and case study 3.3.1 V (deliberately thrown bat) indicate that the offender is ejected but not out. 

Rule 3-3-n/penalty and case study 3.3.1 AA (malicious contact) indicate that the offender is ejected and out.

 

Also the intentionally thrown bat is a DDB but MC is a DB.  Does anyone know the background and logic to these 2 situations? A deliberately thrown bat into the catcher seems to be the same as malicious contact to me.

 

An intentionally thrown bat does not involve a safe/out call. A crashed catcher does.

[BT_Blue]

And then ther is this^^^

[UMP45]

Rule 3-3-m/penalty and case study 3.3.1 V (deliberately thrown bat) indicate that the offender is ejected but not out. 

Rule 3-3-n/penalty and case study 3.3.1 AA (malicious contact) indicate that the offender is ejected and out.

 

Also the intentionally thrown bat is a DDB but MC is a DB.  Does anyone know the background and logic to these 2 situations? A deliberately thrown bat into the catcher seems to be the same as malicious contact to me.

What bothers me the most about this is how some umpires may go looking for something that isn't there. Some umpires "misinterpret" some rules and "create outs". I understand the rule but I don't want umpires using it as a "magic bullet". 

[noumpere]

 

Rule 3-3-m/penalty and case study 3.3.1 V (deliberately thrown bat) indicate that the offender is ejected but not out. 

Rule 3-3-n/penalty and case study 3.3.1 AA (malicious contact) indicate that the offender is ejected and out.

 

Also the intentionally thrown bat is a DDB but MC is a DB.  Does anyone know the background and logic to these 2 situations? A deliberately thrown bat into the catcher seems to be the same as malicious contact to me.

 

An intentionally thrown bat does not involve a safe/out call. A crashed catcher does.

 

But you can have MC even when a play is not involved and there are cases in the book about that.

 

I've never seen anyone throw a bat at a catcher (in the course of play).  Bats are thrown at the backstop or at the teams own dugout.

[BigUmpire]

 

Rule 3-3-m/penalty and case study 3.3.1 V (deliberately thrown bat) indicate that the offender is ejected but not out. 

Rule 3-3-n/penalty and case study 3.3.1 AA (malicious contact) indicate that the offender is ejected and out.

 

Also the intentionally thrown bat is a DDB but MC is a DB.  Does anyone know the background and logic to these 2 situations? A deliberately thrown bat into the catcher seems to be the same as malicious contact to me.

What bothers me the most about this is how some umpires may go looking for something that isn't there. Some umpires "misinterpret" some rules and "create outs". I understand the rule but I don't want umpires using it as a "magic bullet". 

 

Bumper sticker:

• "If you go out looking for trouble, you will find it"-Bigumpire

[mstaylor]

The reason bat throwing is delayed dead is because the defense could get other outs so they leave it live. MC is both a safety rule and sportsman rule so they kill it. It keeps any runners from advancing.

[PGOLDEN88]

Sunday in a high school tournament, I encountered a school that employs the practice of flinging the bat in the path of the catcher as he goes to back up first with nobody on. The first one was pretty glaring, and I stepped in. When I got back to the plate circle, the catcher said "THANK you," which indicated to me that it was that team's standard practice. When it happened again, I had to make a documented team warning. When a third batter went to do it, he clearly tried to stop himself and threw it very softly, and it didn't get to the catcher, but I gave him the Sicilian stare and he crawled into a hole, so I let it go but reiterated my warning.  

 

There are teams that are just plain dirty, and it's our job to take them out of their game at first blush. I also had to step in on some taunting, posturing, and other forms of unsportsmanlike conduct by this club.

 

I got a serious taste of where they learned it: I also experienced some of the worst parental blathering I have ever heard. The best one: A batter swings at a pitch and barely nicks it--tips it, if you will. The catcher caught it, I confirmed that he caught it, and then I took the inside of my right hand and scraped it against the outside of my left hand and made a strike signal. So far, so good. The catcher faked a throw at R1. Then this warm gust from a giant 300-plus pound windbag blew at our backs. 

 

"That's a foul ball! He fouled that! He's supposed to be out! What is this? This is unbelievable! He's out! He's letting him hit! He's out! This guy's horrible! I can't believe this; this guy's taking it away from the kids!" 

 

This same blathering imbecile stalked me after the game, and claimed that he used to be an umpire, and that I am one of the worst umpires he's ever seen. (I've never been afraid of people that I can outrun, especially when I'm armed with steel-toed shoes and a titanium mask, which essentially serves as an over-sized set of brass knuckles.) As I continued to walk to my car with my somewhat shocked partner, the imbecile said, "I served in the US military and I'm ordering you to stop and address me!"

 

Well, I worked even harder to hold in an outburst of laughter than I did at his I-used-to-be-an-umpire claim. I managed not to laugh or speak, and then the AD/tournament director arrived and addressed the imbecile. If I spoke, I would have expressed relief that such a blathering imbecile is no longer an umpire (if he ever was), and more importantly, that he is no longer a soldier (if he ever was). I later learned that he had to be threatened with arrest if he continued to stalk me. 

 

What this all means is that a bat and a ball, and to a significant degree, a running athlete, can be weapons. When there is inappropriate use of any of those things, we must be emphatic in our forbidding of it. A bat thrown at a catcher is indeed rare, and that's the sole reason that the rule remains what it is. Equipment violations are still grounds for ejection. I guess I like the idea that it's not an automatic dead on a bat flinging. 

What the &*#%?!? This guy is shameful to everyone who has EVER put the military uniform on. Yes, be proud of your service, but don't EVER try to tell anyone that they have to stop and address you. I would have taken a picture of him and given it to the folks at Stolen Valor, embarass his @$$. I don't try to be someone I'm not. I know my boundaries when dealing with currently serving Soldiers, Veterans, and even those who never served.

 

(OEF VET 2010-11, 1BCT, 10th MTN DIV (LI))