Prepare for 2014: Play 3

[maven]

SITUATION: Bases loaded, 1 out. The batter hits the ball down the RF line, and F9 makes a diving catch. R3 retouches and scores. R2, thinking the ball was trapped, does not retouch and advances to 3B. R1 returns to 1B. Prior to the umpire calling time, the defense verbally appeals R2 leaving early, and R2 begins to run back to 2B, where he is obstructed by F6. The defense then throws the ball out of play.  (a) R2 does retouch 2B, or (b) R2 does not retouch 2B.

 

RULING: ??

 

Please cite rule references, including any differences between OBR, NCAA, and FED.

[grayhawk]

1.  The verbal appeal is ignored since in all cases during a live ball, the runner must be tagged, or the base touched while in possession of the ball for a live ball appeal.

 

2.  In OBR, the obstruction is likely type A (though it's hard to tell where the ball is in the description).  If it's type A, then it's an immediate dead ball.  R2's minimum award will be third base.  He can be awarded home if, in the judgement of the umpire, he would have reached it if not for the obstruction.  R1 will stay at first unless the umpire judges that he would have reached second or beyond if not for the obstruction of R2.

 

3.  In Fed, call the obstruction and let it play out.  Award R2 home on the ball thrown out of play.  Award R1 third.

 

4.  In any case, R2 must retouch second.  If he retouches, he is safe on appeal.  If he doesn't retouch, he is out on proper appeal.

[conbo61]

Working with the FED Rule Set:

 

I don't have my books here at work, but if the runner touched 3rd (assumed since OP says R2 "advances to 3B"), I thought he could NOT go back and touch.  Does the fact that the ball was thrown out of play supersede his touch at 3B?

 

I would make all awards for the ball being thrown out of play without regard to any appeal.  If during the dead ball the defense appealed that R2 left early (and I saw it), I would call R2 out. R1 would keep any bases awarded as a result of the ball being thrown out of play.

 

Please note this is off of the top of my head.

[UmpTTS43]

OBR/NCAA

Call the OBS.

If the ball is in possession of a fielder, call time, award R2 third keep R1 at first. If the OBS was near second base and prevented R2 from retouching, you can rule that since the OBS was the cause of R2 not retouching, no actual retouch is necessary and any further appeal will not be upheld. If the OBS did not prevent R2 from retouching, it is his responsibility to retouch prior to advancing on the award. If R2 fails to do so, he is subject to be put out upon proper appeal.

If the ball is in flight when the OBS occurs, you call the OBS and wait to see what the status of the ball is at the end of the throw. If possessed by a fielder, see above. If the ball goes out of play, award R2 home and R1 third. Again depending where the OBS occurred, you can either ignore or uphold a proper appeal.

Again, if the OBS did not prevent R2 from retouching, it is R2's responsibility to retouch prior to advancing on the appropriate award.

[grayhawk]

Working with the FED Rule Set:

 

I don't have my books here at work, but if the runner touched 3rd (assumed since OP says R2 "advances to 3B"), I thought he could NOT go back and touch.  Does the fact that the ball was thrown out of play supersede his touch at 3B?

 

I would make all awards for the ball being thrown out of play without regard to any appeal.  If during the dead ball the defense appealed that R2 left early (and I saw it), I would call R2 out. R1 would keep any bases awarded as a result of the ball being thrown out of play.

 

Please note this is off of the top of my head.

 

The Fed rule is that if R2 is on or beyond third base when the ball enters dead ball territory, then he cannot legally retouch second.  However, in this instance, R2 had already retreated back towards second when the ball entered DBT.  Therefore, he can legally retouch.

[conbo61]

Understood.

 

Thank you.

[grayhawk]

OBR/NCAA

Call the OBS.

If the ball is in possession of a fielder, call time, award R2 third keep R1 at first. If the OBS was near second base and prevented R2 from retouching, you can rule that since the OBS was the cause of R2 not retouching, no actual retouch is necessary and any further appeal will not be upheld. If the OBS did not prevent R2 from retouching, it is his responsibility to retouch prior to advancing on the award. If R2 fails to do so, he is subject to be put out upon proper appeal.

If the ball is in flight when the OBS occurs, you call the OBS and wait to see what the status of the ball is at the end of the throw. If possessed by a fielder, see above. If the ball goes out of play, award R2 home and R1 third. Again depending where the OBS occurred, you can either ignore or uphold a proper appeal.

Again, if the OBS did not prevent R2 from retouching, it is R2's responsibility to retouch prior to advancing on the appropriate award.

 

I've never seen this definition of a play being made on a runner.  Here's what MLBUM says:

 

41.  Rule 7.06:  Obstruction Mechanic

 

1.  The first type of obstruction (Official Baseball Rule 7.06(a)) deals with cases when the runner is obstructed WHILE a play is being made on such runner.  Examples of this type of obstruction include:

 

(2) Runner is obstructed as a fielder is making a direct throw to a base in an attempt to retire that runner.

 

So, if F9 got up and made a direct throw to second to retire R2, as R2 is being obstructed, this is Type A and an immediate dead ball (even if the ball is still in the air).  I suppose if the throw is so far off line that the umpire judges that this was not a direct throw, then it could be called Type B.  Is this what you meant by waiting to see the status of the ball at the end of the throw?

[UmpTTS43]

Even in the event of type A OBS, if the ball is in flight when the OBS occurs, you cannot immediately kill it because the ball has the unlikely opportunity of going out of play in which event the two base award takes precedence.

[afaber12]

This could be type A or type B obstruction. Apart from the hopefully obvious fair/foul and catch/no catch rulings, up until the obstruction there's nothing particularly tricky to rule on.

 

The way the OP is worded it could be type B obstruction, as it says R2 was obstructed, and then the ball was thrown out of play, with nothing to clarify if there was any attempted play on R2 prior to that. If that's the case, then its type B (7.06b), and you let the play develop until the ball goes out of play. Since it cannot be the first play by an infielder, each runner gets two bases from the time of the throw (7.05g): R1 gets third, R2 gets home. Depending on the specific nature of the obstruction, including how close to second it occurred, the re-touch of second by R2 may be awarded if in the your "... judgement will nullify the act of obstruction." If not, then R2 is at risk of an appeal for leaving early when the ball is put back in play. Assuming such an appeal is successfully made and upheld, though it would be the third out (catch was 2nd) R3's run still scores as R2's out does not meet the criteria of 4.09a: was not BR before touching first, was not a force out (despite being "forced" to touch the base, it was not as a result of having to vacate a base because BR became a runner), and was not a preceding runner to R3.

 

If its type A (7.06a) then the ball is immediately dead, and R2 is awarded at least third. If the ball was in flight at the time, the comments for 7.06a say that if the throw is wild runners are awarded bases as though the obstruction had not occurred. I'm inclined to look at the result of that throw, even if it isn't the throw that goes out of play, and judge if because it was wild (say F1 trying to throw to F4 at second but goes over his head and wide into the right-centre alley) whether the runners would have made an extra base on their own - R1 possibly to second, R2 not likely past third. If that throw doesn't go out of play, R2 gets third, R1 probably stays at first (unless the throw was wild enough for him to advance per above).  If it does go out of play, R1 gets third and R2 scores. Type A doesn't include the judgement nullification statement, so R2 must re-touch second regardless of how far he's awarded to or the nature of the obstruction. Like with the type B above, if he doesn't re-touch and an appeal is made an upheld, he's the third out but R3's run scores.

[grayhawk]

Even in the event of type A OBS, if the ball is in flight when the OBS occurs, you cannot immediately kill it because the ball has the unlikely opportunity of going out of play in which event the two base award takes precedence.

 

Quite right.  Thank you for the correction.

[Rich Ives]

Re type a and waiting:  Sorta.  You call it immediately and the ball is immediately dead except if the ball was in flight at the time you make awards as if there were no obstruction.  See the rule comment.

[afaber12]

Re type a and waiting:  Sorta.  You call it immediately and the ball is immediately dead except if the ball was in flight at the time you make awards as if there were no obstruction.  See the rule comment.

 

To clarify my comments, I did mean that the obstruction should be called and kill the play straight away. I meant if the throw was in flight you can use that throw to judge what might have happened, and that throw if it goes out of play to award additional bases that wouldn't otherwise be awarded purely on the obstruction. But if a subsequent throw goes out of play or goes wild, that can have no impact on the awards made.

[maven]

If the OBS was near second base and prevented R2 from retouching, you can rule that since the OBS was the cause of R2 not retouching, no actual retouch is necessary and any further appeal will not be upheld.

 

Just concerning this part of your ruling: won't R2 have an opportunity to retouch after the ball becomes dead on the overthrow?

 

Ordinarily, we excuse an obstructed runner from a touch/retouch when OBS prevents the touch. In other plays, when R2 is obstructed rounding 3B and thrown out at the plate, we don't require him to go back to 3B and touch it, we just score him and deny any appeal at 3B.

 

But here the ball is dead and R2 is still between 2B and 3B, having gone back to retouch. I'm not sure I'd excuse him from the requirement to run the bases legally, even during an award.

[grayhawk]

If the OBS was near second base and prevented R2 from retouching, you can rule that since the OBS was the cause of R2 not retouching, no actual retouch is necessary and any further appeal will not be upheld.

  Just concerning this part of your ruling: won't R2 have an opportunity to retouch after the ball becomes dead on the overthrow?   Ordinarily, we excuse an obstructed runner from a touch/retouch when OBS prevents the touch. In other plays, when R2 is obstructed rounding 3B and thrown out at the plate, we don't require him to go back to 3B and touch it, we just score him and deny any appeal at 3B.   But here the ball is dead and R2 is still between 2B and 3B, having gone back to retouch. I'm not sure I'd excuse him from the requirement to run the bases legally, even during an award. Agreed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UmpTTS43]

You are correct. I misspoke. I realized this after reading it. Oops

[UmpTTS43]

Another oops. On a roll.

[Haid D' Salaami]

1.  The verbal appeal is ignored since in all cases during a live ball, the runner must be tagged, or the base touched while in possession of the ball for a live ball appeal.

 

2.  In OBR, the obstruction is likely type A (though it's hard to tell where the ball is in the description).  If it's type A, then it's an immediate dead ball.  R2's minimum award will be third base.  He can be awarded home if, in the judgement of the umpire, he would have reached it if not for the obstruction.  R1 will stay at first unless the umpire judges that he would have reached second or beyond if not for the obstruction of R2.

 

3.  In Fed, call the obstruction and let it play out.  Award R2 home on the ball thrown out of play.  Award R1 third.

 

4.  In any case, R2 must retouch second.  If he retouches, he is safe on appeal.  If he doesn't retouch, he is out on proper appeal.

[Haid D' Salaami]

This could be type A or type B obstruction. Apart from the hopefully obvious fair/foul and catch/no catch rulings, up until the obstruction there's nothing particularly tricky to rule on.

 

The way the OP is worded it could be type B obstruction, as it says R2 was obstructed, and then the ball was thrown out of play, with nothing to clarify if there was any attempted play on R2 prior to that. If that's the case, then its type B (7.06b), and you let the play develop until the ball goes out of play. Since it cannot be the first play by an infielder, each runner gets two bases from the time of the throw (7.05g): R1 gets third, R2 gets home. Depending on the specific nature of the obstruction, including how close to second it occurred, the re-touch of second by R2 may be awarded if in the your "... judgement will nullify the act of obstruction." If not, then R2 is at risk of an appeal for leaving early when the ball is put back in play. Assuming such an appeal is successfully made and upheld, though it would be the third out (catch was 2nd) R3's run still scores as R2's out does not meet the criteria of 4.09a: was not BR before touching first, was not a force out (despite being "forced" to touch the base, it was not as a result of having to vacate a base because BR became a runner), and was not a preceding runner to R3.

 

If its type A (7.06a) then the ball is immediately dead, and R2 is awarded at least third. If the ball was in flight at the time, the comments for 7.06a say that if the throw is wild runners are awarded bases as though the obstruction had not occurred. I'm inclined to look at the result of that throw, even if it isn't the throw that goes out of play, and judge if because it was wild (say F1 trying to throw to F4 at second but goes over his head and wide into the right-centre alley) whether the runners would have made an extra base on their own - R1 possibly to second, R2 not likely past third. If that throw doesn't go out of play, R2 gets third, R1 probably stays at first (unless the throw was wild enough for him to advance per above).  If it does go out of play, R1 gets third and R2 scores. Type A doesn't include the judgement nullification statement, so R2 must re-touch second regardless of how far he's awarded to or the nature of the obstruction. Like with the type B above, if he doesn't re-touch and an appeal is made an upheld, he's the third out but R3's run scores.

you cant have both types of OBS on this runner in this play.

[afaber12]

 

This could be type A or type B obstruction. Apart from the hopefully obvious fair/foul and catch/no catch rulings, up until the obstruction there's nothing particularly tricky to rule on.

 

The way the OP is worded it could be type B obstruction, as it says R2 was obstructed, and then the ball was thrown out of play, with nothing to clarify if there was any attempted play on R2 prior to that. If that's the case, then its type B (7.06b), and you let the play develop until the ball goes out of play. Since it cannot be the first play by an infielder, each runner gets two bases from the time of the throw (7.05g): R1 gets third, R2 gets home. Depending on the specific nature of the obstruction, including how close to second it occurred, the re-touch of second by R2 may be awarded if in the your "... judgement will nullify the act of obstruction." If not, then R2 is at risk of an appeal for leaving early when the ball is put back in play. Assuming such an appeal is successfully made and upheld, though it would be the third out (catch was 2nd) R3's run still scores as R2's out does not meet the criteria of 4.09a: was not BR before touching first, was not a force out (despite being "forced" to touch the base, it was not as a result of having to vacate a base because BR became a runner), and was not a preceding runner to R3.

 

If its type A (7.06a) then the ball is immediately dead, and R2 is awarded at least third. If the ball was in flight at the time, the comments for 7.06a say that if the throw is wild runners are awarded bases as though the obstruction had not occurred. I'm inclined to look at the result of that throw, even if it isn't the throw that goes out of play, and judge if because it was wild (say F1 trying to throw to F4 at second but goes over his head and wide into the right-centre alley) whether the runners would have made an extra base on their own - R1 possibly to second, R2 not likely past third. If that throw doesn't go out of play, R2 gets third, R1 probably stays at first (unless the throw was wild enough for him to advance per above).  If it does go out of play, R1 gets third and R2 scores. Type A doesn't include the judgement nullification statement, so R2 must re-touch second regardless of how far he's awarded to or the nature of the obstruction. Like with the type B above, if he doesn't re-touch and an appeal is made an upheld, he's the third out but R3's run scores.

you cant have both types of OBS on this runner in this play.

 

 

I agree that in any play its either one or the other. But the description leaves open the possibility of both. I'm presuming - particularly given I was a fielder in a similar play that didn't result in the ball going out of play, or have an obstruction, so not really that similar - that R2 was standing on third after play had relaxed. Someone or several someones on the defense call out that he left early, which triggers him to head back to second. F6 isn't paying attention to what R2 is doing, is maybe yelling at whoever wound up with the ball to throw it to second or to tag the runner, or just harassing one of the umpires about the runner leaving early, when R2 runs into him: obstruction.

 

If someone with the ball was chasing R2, or was throwing or had thrown the ball in an attempt to get R2 out on his way to or at second, then its type A; a play was being attempted on the runner that was obstructed. But if the fielder who wound up with the ball is slow to realise what's happening, maybe even isn't looking in either R2's direction or that of third or second base when the obstruction occurred, then it would be difficult to claim any play was being attempted, let alone on the runner in question, so would have to be type B. Just as the verbal appeal is ignored as it isn't a proper live ball appeal, it isn't an legitimate attempt to retire any runner let alone the runner obstructed either.

 

Type A is probably the most likely, but I've seen cases where runners "steal" bases because the defense isn't paying attention, so I don't think its automatic.

[catcher]

Forgive me for being new, but what do FED and OBR stand for? 

[JaxRolo]

Forgive me for being new, but what do FED and OBR stand for? 

Federation HS rules Official Baseball Rules Sent Via Telekinesis

[th3]

Fed comes from National Federation of hs sports NFHS)

Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk

[Haid D' Salaami]

 

 

This could be type A or type B obstruction. Apart from the hopefully obvious fair/foul and catch/no catch rulings, up until the obstruction there's nothing particularly tricky to rule on.

 

The way the OP is worded it could be type B obstruction, as it says R2 was obstructed, and then the ball was thrown out of play, with nothing to clarify if there was any attempted play on R2 prior to that. If that's the case, then its type B (7.06b), and you let the play develop until the ball goes out of play. Since it cannot be the first play by an infielder, each runner gets two bases from the time of the throw (7.05g): R1 gets third, R2 gets home. Depending on the specific nature of the obstruction, including how close to second it occurred, the re-touch of second by R2 may be awarded if in the your "... judgement will nullify the act of obstruction." If not, then R2 is at risk of an appeal for leaving early when the ball is put back in play. Assuming such an appeal is successfully made and upheld, though it would be the third out (catch was 2nd) R3's run still scores as R2's out does not meet the criteria of 4.09a: was not BR before touching first, was not a force out (despite being "forced" to touch the base, it was not as a result of having to vacate a base because BR became a runner), and was not a preceding runner to R3.

 

If its type A (7.06a) then the ball is immediately dead, and R2 is awarded at least third. If the ball was in flight at the time, the comments for 7.06a say that if the throw is wild runners are awarded bases as though the obstruction had not occurred. I'm inclined to look at the result of that throw, even if it isn't the throw that goes out of play, and judge if because it was wild (say F1 trying to throw to F4 at second but goes over his head and wide into the right-centre alley) whether the runners would have made an extra base on their own - R1 possibly to second, R2 not likely past third. If that throw doesn't go out of play, R2 gets third, R1 probably stays at first (unless the throw was wild enough for him to advance per above).  If it does go out of play, R1 gets third and R2 scores. Type A doesn't include the judgement nullification statement, so R2 must re-touch second regardless of how far he's awarded to or the nature of the obstruction. Like with the type B above, if he doesn't re-touch and an appeal is made an upheld, he's the third out but R3's run scores.

you cant have both types of OBS on this runner in this play.

 

 

I agree that in any play its either one or the other. But the description leaves open the possibility of both. I'm presuming - particularly given I was a fielder in a similar play that didn't result in the ball going out of play, or have an obstruction, so not really that similar - that R2 was standing on third after play had relaxed. Someone or several someones on the defense call out that he left early, which triggers him to head back to second. F6 isn't paying attention to what R2 is doing, is maybe yelling at whoever wound up with the ball to throw it to second or to tag the runner, or just harassing one of the umpires about the runner leaving early, when R2 runs into him: obstruction.

 

If someone with the ball was chasing R2, or was throwing or had thrown the ball in an attempt to get R2 out on his way to or at second, then its type A; a play was being attempted on the runner that was obstructed. But if the fielder who wound up with the ball is slow to realise what's happening, maybe even isn't looking in either R2's direction or that of third or second base when the obstruction occurred, then it would be difficult to claim any play was being attempted, let alone on the runner in question, so would have to be type B. Just as the verbal appeal is ignored as it isn't a proper live ball appeal, it isn't an legitimate attempt to retire any runner let alone the runner obstructed either.

 

Type A is probably the most likely, but I've seen cases where runners "steal" bases because the defense isn't paying attention, so I don't think its automatic.

 

actually it is pretty simple on OBS...

 

1. are they making a play on a runner.. i.e... is it in a rundown, or the runner coming into a base and the fielder or another fielder is blocking...

 

2. No play on a runner.. i.e... BR or any runner rounding a base and the fielder impedes his base running.

[grayhawk]

 

 

 

This could be type A or type B obstruction. Apart from the hopefully obvious fair/foul and catch/no catch rulings, up until the obstruction there's nothing particularly tricky to rule on.

 

The way the OP is worded it could be type B obstruction, as it says R2 was obstructed, and then the ball was thrown out of play, with nothing to clarify if there was any attempted play on R2 prior to that. If that's the case, then its type B (7.06b), and you let the play develop until the ball goes out of play. Since it cannot be the first play by an infielder, each runner gets two bases from the time of the throw (7.05g): R1 gets third, R2 gets home. Depending on the specific nature of the obstruction, including how close to second it occurred, the re-touch of second by R2 may be awarded if in the your "... judgement will nullify the act of obstruction." If not, then R2 is at risk of an appeal for leaving early when the ball is put back in play. Assuming such an appeal is successfully made and upheld, though it would be the third out (catch was 2nd) R3's run still scores as R2's out does not meet the criteria of 4.09a: was not BR before touching first, was not a force out (despite being "forced" to touch the base, it was not as a result of having to vacate a base because BR became a runner), and was not a preceding runner to R3.

 

If its type A (7.06a) then the ball is immediately dead, and R2 is awarded at least third. If the ball was in flight at the time, the comments for 7.06a say that if the throw is wild runners are awarded bases as though the obstruction had not occurred. I'm inclined to look at the result of that throw, even if it isn't the throw that goes out of play, and judge if because it was wild (say F1 trying to throw to F4 at second but goes over his head and wide into the right-centre alley) whether the runners would have made an extra base on their own - R1 possibly to second, R2 not likely past third. If that throw doesn't go out of play, R2 gets third, R1 probably stays at first (unless the throw was wild enough for him to advance per above).  If it does go out of play, R1 gets third and R2 scores. Type A doesn't include the judgement nullification statement, so R2 must re-touch second regardless of how far he's awarded to or the nature of the obstruction. Like with the type B above, if he doesn't re-touch and an appeal is made an upheld, he's the third out but R3's run scores.

you cant have both types of OBS on this runner in this play.

 

 

I agree that in any play its either one or the other. But the description leaves open the possibility of both. I'm presuming - particularly given I was a fielder in a similar play that didn't result in the ball going out of play, or have an obstruction, so not really that similar - that R2 was standing on third after play had relaxed. Someone or several someones on the defense call out that he left early, which triggers him to head back to second. F6 isn't paying attention to what R2 is doing, is maybe yelling at whoever wound up with the ball to throw it to second or to tag the runner, or just harassing one of the umpires about the runner leaving early, when R2 runs into him: obstruction.

 

If someone with the ball was chasing R2, or was throwing or had thrown the ball in an attempt to get R2 out on his way to or at second, then its type A; a play was being attempted on the runner that was obstructed. But if the fielder who wound up with the ball is slow to realise what's happening, maybe even isn't looking in either R2's direction or that of third or second base when the obstruction occurred, then it would be difficult to claim any play was being attempted, let alone on the runner in question, so would have to be type B. Just as the verbal appeal is ignored as it isn't a proper live ball appeal, it isn't an legitimate attempt to retire any runner let alone the runner obstructed either.

 

Type A is probably the most likely, but I've seen cases where runners "steal" bases because the defense isn't paying attention, so I don't think its automatic.

 

actually it is pretty simple on OBS...

 

1. are they making a play on a runner.. i.e... is it in a rundown, or the runner coming into a base and the fielder or another fielder is blocking...

 

2. No play on a runner.. i.e... BR or any runner rounding a base and the fielder impedes his base running.

 

 

Generally, it is pretty simple.  However, with a throw into DBT, it's not so simple for OBR.  As has been pointed out, even though they may be making a play on the runner, if the ball is in the air (a direct throw to put out the runner), we should not kill this play immediately even though it's Type A obstruction.  Call the obstruction, and then watch the result of the throw (in play, or out of play).  If it's in play, kill it and make the obstruction award.  If it's out of play, then call time and award for the throw going to DBT.

[Haid D' Salaami]

 

 

 

 

This could be type A or type B obstruction. Apart from the hopefully obvious fair/foul and catch/no catch rulings, up until the obstruction there's nothing particularly tricky to rule on.

 

The way the OP is worded it could be type B obstruction, as it says R2 was obstructed, and then the ball was thrown out of play, with nothing to clarify if there was any attempted play on R2 prior to that. If that's the case, then its type B (7.06b), and you let the play develop until the ball goes out of play. Since it cannot be the first play by an infielder, each runner gets two bases from the time of the throw (7.05g): R1 gets third, R2 gets home. Depending on the specific nature of the obstruction, including how close to second it occurred, the re-touch of second by R2 may be awarded if in the your "... judgement will nullify the act of obstruction." If not, then R2 is at risk of an appeal for leaving early when the ball is put back in play. Assuming such an appeal is successfully made and upheld, though it would be the third out (catch was 2nd) R3's run still scores as R2's out does not meet the criteria of 4.09a: was not BR before touching first, was not a force out (despite being "forced" to touch the base, it was not as a result of having to vacate a base because BR became a runner), and was not a preceding runner to R3.

 

If its type A (7.06a) then the ball is immediately dead, and R2 is awarded at least third. If the ball was in flight at the time, the comments for 7.06a say that if the throw is wild runners are awarded bases as though the obstruction had not occurred. I'm inclined to look at the result of that throw, even if it isn't the throw that goes out of play, and judge if because it was wild (say F1 trying to throw to F4 at second but goes over his head and wide into the right-centre alley) whether the runners would have made an extra base on their own - R1 possibly to second, R2 not likely past third. If that throw doesn't go out of play, R2 gets third, R1 probably stays at first (unless the throw was wild enough for him to advance per above).  If it does go out of play, R1 gets third and R2 scores. Type A doesn't include the judgement nullification statement, so R2 must re-touch second regardless of how far he's awarded to or the nature of the obstruction. Like with the type B above, if he doesn't re-touch and an appeal is made an upheld, he's the third out but R3's run scores.

you cant have both types of OBS on this runner in this play.

 

 

I agree that in any play its either one or the other. But the description leaves open the possibility of both. I'm presuming - particularly given I was a fielder in a similar play that didn't result in the ball going out of play, or have an obstruction, so not really that similar - that R2 was standing on third after play had relaxed. Someone or several someones on the defense call out that he left early, which triggers him to head back to second. F6 isn't paying attention to what R2 is doing, is maybe yelling at whoever wound up with the ball to throw it to second or to tag the runner, or just harassing one of the umpires about the runner leaving early, when R2 runs into him: obstruction.

 

If someone with the ball was chasing R2, or was throwing or had thrown the ball in an attempt to get R2 out on his way to or at second, then its type A; a play was being attempted on the runner that was obstructed. But if the fielder who wound up with the ball is slow to realise what's happening, maybe even isn't looking in either R2's direction or that of third or second base when the obstruction occurred, then it would be difficult to claim any play was being attempted, let alone on the runner in question, so would have to be type B. Just as the verbal appeal is ignored as it isn't a proper live ball appeal, it isn't an legitimate attempt to retire any runner let alone the runner obstructed either.

 

Type A is probably the most likely, but I've seen cases where runners "steal" bases because the defense isn't paying attention, so I don't think its automatic.

 

actually it is pretty simple on OBS...

 

1. are they making a play on a runner.. i.e... is it in a rundown, or the runner coming into a base and the fielder or another fielder is blocking...

 

2. No play on a runner.. i.e... BR or any runner rounding a base and the fielder impedes his base running.

 

 

Generally, it is pretty simple.  However, with a throw into DBT, it's not so simple for OBR.  As has been pointed out, even though they may be making a play on the runner, if the ball is in the air (a direct throw to put out the runner), we should not kill this play immediately even though it's Type A obstruction.  Call the obstruction, and then watch the result of the throw (in play, or out of play).  If it's in play, kill it and make the obstruction award.  If it's out of play, then call time and award for the throw going to DBT.

 

No it still is simple... If there is OBS and the ball is in the air.. you award the bases on the throw.... I can give you a couple of examples..