A question for assigners, board members, directors, etc

[Pete Peterson Sr]

The executive board of my association has decided to not "renew" a returning umpire for the 2014 season (no, Jocko, it isn't you). My question is two-fold: First, what criteria did you use in making this decision, and secondly, how was this message delivered ? Was it done in person, by phone, or by mail ? We have tried in vain to contact this gentleman on the phone, to arrange a meeting, and are considering sending him a registered letter.

[umpstu]

First off, at the end of each season we release all umpires. In the winter if you receive a letter inviting you back, good for you. No one says you are guaranteed a spot. 

Second, umpiring abilities are taken into account. But, attitude and willingness to change, or better yet, learn new things has something to do with it. If yoy are on the field it is to umpire, not coach.

Third, what do you do to present an appearance of unity in the unit. Are you out bad mouthing other umpires to your peers, coaches and parents? I don't want you. You do nothing but try and make yourself look important, but actually tear our unit apart. I say see you later.

[mstaylor]

We have only done it once, we had a guy that brought nothing to the game and did nothing to improve. When I say brought nothing I mean his rules knowledge was weak, mechanics were substandard, wouldn't come to training, wouldn't come to rules classes and refused to do a post game. We took a vote of the general membership and they voted to a man to 86 him. Once decided we simply sent him no information and no schedule. 

Now, if he had kicked he could have come to the board to appeal but he never did. 

What is the problem with your guy? 

[alex7]

Our decision for similar situations is based on how the umpire may cause the public to view our association.  Does it give it a negative effect?  Does it compromise the integrity standard that we've established?  Were laws broken that our community members would use against us?  Is he giving no effort to improve after more than a year?

 

On the second part, the commissioner calls the person, leaves a message if they don't answer.  

 

When / If they want to try and get back into the association (either after the required suspension or earlier) there is a questionnaire they need to fill out, they need to speak to the board, we look for remorse/change/circumstances, ask our other members about it, etc., and then we vote again.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

We have only done it once, we had a guy that brought nothing to the game and did nothing to improve. When I say brought nothing I mean his rules knowledge was weak, mechanics were substandard, wouldn't come to training, wouldn't come to rules classes and refused to do a post game. We took a vote of the general membership and they voted to a man to 86 him. Once decided we simply sent him no information and no schedule. 

Now, if he had kicked he could have come to the board to appeal but he never did. 

What is the problem with your guy? 

 

 He is substandard, even though we are told he has 26 years of experience. When he is given instruction, he is quick to explain WHY he did what he did, even though he wound up totally out of position, poached his partner's call, etc, rather than just listening and applying what he is told.. When I am working with a "new" umpire, I have to have their cooperation and willingness to learn. We (the leadership), get neither. He does not deal well with people, either, and at least a half-dozen umpires have asked to scratch him ( we have no official scratch procedure in place). He was scratched by three different middle school coaches last year, as well. At our HS district camp, I asked a trainer from another association to work with him, because he doesn't listen to me. I figured I would see how that went. After a few minutes, my friend came back to me and said "It's not just you, He won't listen to me, either". Now I don't think I am God's gift to the craft by any means, but I carry a great deal of weight locally, or so I am told. I have trained numerous guys who have gone on to be very successful umpires, in HS, and in college. Even so, if he wanted to climb the ladder in our association, he could always do what I am asking him to do, and then discuss it with another of our trainers/board members, if he thinks I am leading him astray.

 In short, in two years with us, he has made zero strides in improvement. And what gets me is, he retired at a relatively young age, and is available whenever he is needed. I have asked him several times to go to specific sites with me to observe some of our veterans, and he only did it once. I do not see any desire on his part to get better, and neither do any of my fellow board members.

[grayhawk]

I would leave a voicemail and send an email that indicates the serious nature of why you are contacting him, without giving the details:

 

Bob, this is Pete with XXXX association.  We've tried to contact you several times with no response.  I am calling about the board's decision on your request to renew your membership.  Please call me at (xxx) xxx-xxxx as soon as possible.  Thank you.

 

Once you get him on the phone, I would tell him the decision and provide the reasons.  You can offer to meet him in person to provide more details if he wishes.

[BT_Blue]

First off, at the end of each season we release all umpires. In the winter if you receive a letter inviting you back, good for you. No one says you are guaranteed a spot.

I was reading your response and thought "that sounds familiar". Then saw you are a member of SCCUA and remember recieving that letter and panicking. Then I read the rest of the letter and just had to wait until December for the renewal.

I actually really like this idea since it spells it out in black and white that if the association wants you back you will recieve the renewal letter. If not, then thank you for your service this past season and you are more then welcome to re-audition next season.

I am currious how my new college association goes about the end of season procedures. Of course inorder to do that I need to get through my first season.

[umpstu]

 

We have only done it once, we had a guy that brought nothing to the game and did nothing to improve. When I say brought nothing I mean his rules knowledge was weak, mechanics were substandard, wouldn't come to training, wouldn't come to rules classes and refused to do a post game. We took a vote of the general membership and they voted to a man to 86 him. Once decided we simply sent him no information and no schedule. 

Now, if he had kicked he could have come to the board to appeal but he never did. 

What is the problem with your guy? 

 

 He is substandard, even though we are told he has 26 years of experience. When he is given instruction, he is quick to explain WHY he did what he did, even though he wound up totally out of position, poached his partner's call, etc, rather than just listening and applying what he is told.. When I am working with a "new" umpire, I have to have their cooperation and willingness to learn. We (the leadership), get neither. He does not deal well with people, either, and at least a half-dozen umpires have asked to scratch him ( we have no official scratch procedure in place). He was scratched by three different middle school coaches last year, as well. At our HS district camp, I asked a trainer from another association to work with him, because he doesn't listen to me. I figured I would see how that went. After a few minutes, my friend came back to me and said "It's not just you, He won't listen to me, either". Now I don't think I am God's gift to the craft by any means, but I carry a great deal of weight locally, or so I am told. I have trained numerous guys who have gone on to be very successful umpires, in HS, and in college. Even so, if he wanted to climb the ladder in our association, he could always do what I am asking him to do, and then discuss it with another of our trainers/board members, if he thinks I am leading him astray.

 In short, in two years with us, he has made zero strides in improvement. And what gets me is, he retired at a relatively young age, and is available whenever he is needed. I have asked him several times to go to specific sites with me to observe some of our veterans, and he only did it once. I do not see any desire on his part to get better, and neither do any of my fellow board members.

 

Pete, 26 years as an umpire doesn't mean you know how to umpire correctly. Either nobody told him he needed to improve or it is one of the old dog learning new tricks. I hate when I evaluate somebody and they want to argue with me. Man, if I told you something that would improve your game don't get attitude with me. I've been doing it right, going to clinics, not just for me but so that I might pass on some very good information to others in the high school unit. Plus, I have sat with Dale Williams so many times at games and just listened to him. He may be a little long winded at times, but he is spot on and would never try to steer you wrong. He really enjoys imparting his wisdom on others. He evaluated me once and had to get another pad of paper. Ha. Not that bad, but he went into great detail and I learned from it.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

I would leave a voicemail and send an email that indicates the serious nature of why you are contacting him, without giving the details:

 

Bob, this is Pete with XXXX association.  We've tried to contact you several times with no response.  I am calling about the board's decision on your request to renew your membership.  Please call me at (xxx) xxx-xxxx as soon as possible.  Thank you.

 

Once you get him on the phone, I would tell him the decision and provide the reasons.  You can offer to meet him in person to provide more details if he wishes.

 

 Great idea, grayhawk. The only problem is, the guy doesn't have VM set up on his phone !!! WTH ????

[Pete Peterson Sr]

 

 

We have only done it once, we had a guy that brought nothing to the game and did nothing to improve. When I say brought nothing I mean his rules knowledge was weak, mechanics were substandard, wouldn't come to training, wouldn't come to rules classes and refused to do a post game. We took a vote of the general membership and they voted to a man to 86 him. Once decided we simply sent him no information and no schedule. 

Now, if he had kicked he could have come to the board to appeal but he never did. 

What is the problem with your guy? 

 

 He is substandard, even though we are told he has 26 years of experience. When he is given instruction, he is quick to explain WHY he did what he did, even though he wound up totally out of position, poached his partner's call, etc, rather than just listening and applying what he is told.. When I am working with a "new" umpire, I have to have their cooperation and willingness to learn. We (the leadership), get neither. He does not deal well with people, either, and at least a half-dozen umpires have asked to scratch him ( we have no official scratch procedure in place). He was scratched by three different middle school coaches last year, as well. At our HS district camp, I asked a trainer from another association to work with him, because he doesn't listen to me. I figured I would see how that went. After a few minutes, my friend came back to me and said "It's not just you, He won't listen to me, either". Now I don't think I am God's gift to the craft by any means, but I carry a great deal of weight locally, or so I am told. I have trained numerous guys who have gone on to be very successful umpires, in HS, and in college. Even so, if he wanted to climb the ladder in our association, he could always do what I am asking him to do, and then discuss it with another of our trainers/board members, if he thinks I am leading him astray.

 In short, in two years with us, he has made zero strides in improvement. And what gets me is, he retired at a relatively young age, and is available whenever he is needed. I have asked him several times to go to specific sites with me to observe some of our veterans, and he only did it once. I do not see any desire on his part to get better, and neither do any of my fellow board members.

 

Pete, 26 years as an umpire doesn't mean you know how to umpire correctly. Either nobody told him he needed to improve or it is one of the old dog learning new tricks. I hate when I evaluate somebody and they want to argue with me. Man, if I told you something that would improve your game don't get attitude with me. I've been doing it right, going to clinics, not just for me but so that I might pass on some very good information to others in the high school unit. Plus, I have sat with Dale Williams so many times at games and just listened to him. He may be a little long winded at times, but he is spot on and would never try to steer you wrong. He really enjoys imparting his wisdom on others. He evaluated me once and had to get another pad of paper. Ha. Not that bad, but he went into great detail and I learned from it.

 

 

 I know...boy don't I know. When I wrote that, I should have emboldened AND italicized it. It was said sarcastically, but I didn't do anything to highlight that fact. He is the classic "1 year's experience, 26 times over", IF he indeed has been doing it that long. He does so little correctly that it is hard to imagine that he could have been at it this long. In my 10+ years on our board (in various positions), he is the first person we have ever had to "fire". We have an excellent reputation as a thorough training association.  Ask Jocko about him, lol.....

[umpstu]

 

 

 

We have only done it once, we had a guy that brought nothing to the game and did nothing to improve. When I say brought nothing I mean his rules knowledge was weak, mechanics were substandard, wouldn't come to training, wouldn't come to rules classes and refused to do a post game. We took a vote of the general membership and they voted to a man to 86 him. Once decided we simply sent him no information and no schedule. 

Now, if he had kicked he could have come to the board to appeal but he never did. 

What is the problem with your guy? 

 

 He is substandard, even though we are told he has 26 years of experience. When he is given instruction, he is quick to explain WHY he did what he did, even though he wound up totally out of position, poached his partner's call, etc, rather than just listening and applying what he is told.. When I am working with a "new" umpire, I have to have their cooperation and willingness to learn. We (the leadership), get neither. He does not deal well with people, either, and at least a half-dozen umpires have asked to scratch him ( we have no official scratch procedure in place). He was scratched by three different middle school coaches last year, as well. At our HS district camp, I asked a trainer from another association to work with him, because he doesn't listen to me. I figured I would see how that went. After a few minutes, my friend came back to me and said "It's not just you, He won't listen to me, either". Now I don't think I am God's gift to the craft by any means, but I carry a great deal of weight locally, or so I am told. I have trained numerous guys who have gone on to be very successful umpires, in HS, and in college. Even so, if he wanted to climb the ladder in our association, he could always do what I am asking him to do, and then discuss it with another of our trainers/board members, if he thinks I am leading him astray.

 In short, in two years with us, he has made zero strides in improvement. And what gets me is, he retired at a relatively young age, and is available whenever he is needed. I have asked him several times to go to specific sites with me to observe some of our veterans, and he only did it once. I do not see any desire on his part to get better, and neither do any of my fellow board members.

 

Pete, 26 years as an umpire doesn't mean you know how to umpire correctly. Either nobody told him he needed to improve or it is one of the old dog learning new tricks. I hate when I evaluate somebody and they want to argue with me. Man, if I told you something that would improve your game don't get attitude with me. I've been doing it right, going to clinics, not just for me but so that I might pass on some very good information to others in the high school unit. Plus, I have sat with Dale Williams so many times at games and just listened to him. He may be a little long winded at times, but he is spot on and would never try to steer you wrong. He really enjoys imparting his wisdom on others. He evaluated me once and had to get another pad of paper. Ha. Not that bad, but he went into great detail and I learned from it.

 

 

 I know...boy don't I know. When I wrote that, I should have emboldened AND italicized it. It was said sarcastically, but I didn't do anything to highlight that fact. He is the classic "1 year's experience, 26 times over", IF he indeed has been doing it that long. He does so little correctly that it is hard to imagine that he could have been at it this long. In my 10+ years on our board (in various positions), he is the first person we have ever had to "fire". We have an excellent reputation as a thorough training association.  Ask Jocko about him, lol.....

 

And don't you like when they come from another association with a glowing letter of recommendation? Then they cite the letter when yu try and tell them that they need to work at their craft.

[Dannytheman]

I think a registered letter to make it official, since he has no voicemail system. Damn shame. Not like people are knocking down our doors to get in. Usually, we try like hell to keep someone.

 

Has anyone tried a written eval on the guy?  I evaled my guys at least once a year. I hate to lose someone. 

[BigUmpire]

Face to face like we do every day on the ball field. Too much VM and emails today. We are umpires. We should be very good at face to face, difficult conversations.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Face to face like we do every day on the ball field. Too much VM and emails today. We are umpires. We should be very good at face to face, difficult conversations.

 

 I absolutely agree, Big. But we can't have a face-to-face if we can't get in touch with him. We would prefer to handle this now, rather than at our first meeting in January.

[BigUmpire]

Understood.

[Stan W.]

Have been faced with this recently....

 

Years ago we established a Probationary period for new members. The first year you join, you are considered a probationary member. At the beginning of the next season, it takes a majority vote of the membership to be considered a full member...At any time during the probationary period you can be released for reason. The reasons usually fall under the headings of dependability, dress, deportment/decorum,and or a lack of skills/knowledge... now, we have had very  few people dropped, as we have been able to train out, or flat demand that the umpire measure up to an acceptable standard....None of our local chapters have a excess of candidates knocking the doors down, so it pays us to go the extra mile to save a probationary member....I think we have done that well over the years..  

 

We have had a experienced candidate come over with that "glowing letter of recommendation" that was talked about above....and after just a few games it was clear he was a mess and the glowing letter was just a way to brush him off his old assoc. We tried everything suggested above, partnered him with our veteran trainers, had frank post game talks, and nothing would sink in...He quickly became a boat anchor and a constant problem call from coaches. We tried dropping him down to a lower level of ball, with a notice what he needed to work on to improve. Nothing worked. Finally we just had to drop him off the schedule....

 

He came to our weekly meeting to complain, stayed afterwards and met with the executive board. We laid out what we tried to do to help him, and that he was suspended until he could improve to the accepted standard. He bitterly moved on to another association. Without a glowing letter from us...The problem is there are more games than umpires and some association will take him, warts and all...

 

If you cant reach him by all modern means of communication available to people today, then drop him from the next seasons schedule.......when he doesn't get any games, he will come asking why and you can fill him in.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Stan W.
usual suspects, clarity and spelling

[maineump]

Have been faced with this recently....

 

Years ago we established a Probationary period for new members. The first year you join, you are considered a probationary member. At the beginning of the next season, it takes a majority vote of the membership to be considered a full member...At any time during the probationary period you can be released for reason. The reasons usually fall under the headings of dependability, dress, deportment/decorum,and or a lack of skills/knowledge... now, we have had very  few people dropped, as we have been able to train out, or flat demand that the umpire measure up to an acceptable standard....None of our local chapters have a excess of candidates knocking the doors down, so it pays us to go the extra mile to save a probationary member....I think we have done that well over the years..  

 

We have had a experienced candidate come over with that "glowing letter of recommendation" that was talked about above....and after just a few games it was clear he was a mess and the glowing letter was just a way to brush him off his old assoc. We tried everything suggested above, partnered him with our veteran trainers, had frank post game talks, and nothing would sink in...He quickly became a boat anchor and a constant problem call from coaches. We tried dropping him down to a lower level of ball, with a notice what he needed to work on to improve. Nothing worked. Finally we just had to drop him off the schedule....

 

He came to our weekly meeting to complain, stayed afterwards and met with the executive board. We laid out what we tried to do to help him, and that he was suspended until he could improve to the accepted standard. He bitterly moved on to another association. Without a glowing letter from us...The problem is there are more games than umpires and some association will take him, warts and all...

 

If you cant reach him by all modern means of communication available to people today, then drop him from the next seasons schedule.......when he doesn't get any games, he will come asking why and you can fill him in.

We have the same procedure for new umpires or new to our HS board. We also have the option to add a year of probation if needed.

Issues that we are now having is Social Media. Hate that stuff - and when we here about our umpires running their keyboards on there about coaches - it puts us in a tough spot.

 

We have let folks go after 2 years of probation for not getting better. Hate to do it but complaints from schools need to be looked at closely.

[alex7]

Agreed with the above; it helps if you have formal written evaluations that you've already emailed him or shown him as evidence.  And yes, if you can't reach him, I'd spend a few bucks to send a certified letter with signature confirmation.

[Magic]

I wish we could do some of these things to some of our members. There is a list I would love to see gone. 

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Have been faced with this recently....

 

Years ago we established a Probationary period for new members. The first year you join, you are considered a probationary member. At the beginning of the next season, it takes a majority vote of the membership to be considered a full member...At any time during the probationary period you can be released for reason. The reasons usually fall under the headings of dependability, dress, deportment/decorum,and or a lack of skills/knowledge... now, we have had very  few people dropped, as we have been able to train out, or flat demand that the umpire measure up to an acceptable standard....None of our local chapters have a excess of candidates knocking the doors down, so it pays us to go the extra mile to save a probationary member....I think we have done that well over the years..  

 

We have had a experienced candidate come over with that "glowing letter of recommendation" that was talked about above....and after just a few games it was clear he was a mess and the glowing letter was just a way to brush him off his old assoc. We tried everything suggested above, partnered him with our veteran trainers, had frank post game talks, and nothing would sink in...He quickly became a boat anchor and a constant problem call from coaches. We tried dropping him down to a lower level of ball, with a notice what he needed to work on to improve. Nothing worked. Finally we just had to drop him off the schedule....

 

He came to our weekly meeting to complain, stayed afterwards and met with the executive board. We laid out what we tried to do to help him, and that he was suspended until he could improve to the accepted standard. He bitterly moved on to another association. Without a glowing letter from us...The problem is there are more games than umpires and some association will take him, warts and all...

 

If you cant reach him by all modern means of communication available to people today, then drop him from the next seasons schedule.......when he doesn't get any games, he will come asking why and you can fill him in.

 

 My only issue with this idea is the fact that we meet weekly for over a month before the season starts, and I don't want him wasting his time coming to the meetings. The two things he was very good at were: A: Showing up for meetings; and 2) Being on time for assignments (Early, actually. Like 3-4 hours before game time). As I said previously, we hope to have this handled before we begin meeting. There is nothing to be gained by being forced to meet with him before/after our meeting, and have everyone know we cut him, when he fails to appear at any further meetings.