Best way to handle a unappealable appeal

[UmpK]

I was in "C" and called a bang-bang play @ 1B.....SAFE!  DC asked PU for an appeal on the judgement call of that play.

 

My partner (PU) announced loudly, "Coach you can't appeal the judgement of that call.  It wouldn't do you any good anyway, HE GOT THE CALL RIGHT."      

Case closed, everybody quite!!   

 

I have used that line since then.  My partners love me for it.      

 

I highly reccomend using this "umpire's mechanic". 

 

 

[Jocko]

Excuse me, but didn't your partner, at least in essence, grant the appeal you never asked for when he confirmed your call? On my field.....don't do that. Stand there quietly and let me handle my own responsibilities. YMMV

[bam]

I'm with Jocko.  If it's not your problem, let the guy whose problem it is handle it.

[UmpK]

The question was directed to my partner and I really didn't hear it.  The play was unappealable, my partner stated that.  Is he just suppossed to stand there and ignore a coach talking to him?

 

Most "Daddy Coaches" aren't aware of the proper way to do things.  Most games they coach aren't officiated by trained umpires.  I handle them differently than I do with the high school coaches who should know proper appeals.  I am thankful for the "Daddy Coaches" who take the time with their children.  Without them we have no games to officiate.  I understand they are not professional coaches, I treat and address them accordingly.  I surely will never stand there and ignore them when they ask me a question.  Just like I expect them to treat me with respect when I step into their office at their real job.

[NFUA_44]

"No coach there isn't an appeal of a judgment call."  It's clean and simple and there is no telling them one thing and then giving them an answer on that which you just told them there was no appeal on.

 

If you even entertain this notion then your doing nothing more than setting them up for future problems with other umpires.  You can answer their question, respectfully with the truth and he starts to learn where and when an appeal is appropriate.  Telling them no appeal and then answering a question about what isn't even YOUR call is just begging for trouble.  Am I supposed to hang out in B or C and offer up my judgment on your balls and strikes?  Do you see how this goes nowhere good for you in the long run........I hope

[zm1283]

Even if you did go to your partner for help on a play at first (Pulled foot or swipe tag), it still isn't an appeal.

[Specks]

The question was directed to my partner and I really didn't hear it.  The play was unappealable, my partner stated that.  Is he just suppossed to stand there and ignore a coach talking to him?

 

Most "Daddy Coaches" aren't aware of the proper way to do things.  Most games they coach aren't officiated by trained umpires.  I handle them differently than I do with the high school coaches who should know proper appeals.  I am thankful for the "Daddy Coaches" who take the time with their children.  Without them we have no games to officiate.  I understand they are not professional coaches, I treat and address them accordingly.  I surely will never stand there and ignore them when they ask me a question.  Just like I expect them to treat me with respect when I step into their office at their real job.

The PU shouldn't ignore the manager, he should simply direct him to the umpire that made the call. BU will tell him no appeal. Otherwise, like others have said, it just creates potential problems down the road. Managers go to the PU because they think he's in charge, teach them the proper way and the next crew will have it easier.

[BigUmp56]

To be honest, your partner was incorrect. A manager can always "appeal" to an umpire to go for help on a call, but as was mentioned earlier, it's not an actual appeal. He may or may not have the covering umpire go for help depending on the situation. Specks has given you the text book way we handle situations where a manager or coach goes to the wrong umpire to ask for help. Simply direct him to the umpire responsible for making the initial call.

 

Tim.

[maven]

The "appeal" business is part of what makes baseball rules needlessly wooly. You'll find the word 'appeal' mentioned in OBR in the following contexts, all distinct:

• 2.00 definition of appeal play
• 3.10 giving teams the right to appeal to the league concerning starting in bad weather in championship games
• 6.07 asking the umpire to rule on batting out of order
• 7.08(j) ruling on whether the BR failed to return after overrunning or oversliding 1B
• 7.08(k) ruling on whether a runner at HP failed to touch and goes to the dugout
• 9.02(b) giving managers the right to appeal a possible rule interpretation
• 9.02(c ) giving the defense the right to appeal a half swing called a ball

So let's not get too picky with the idea of an "appeal." Coaches MAY appeal judgment calls, as the appealing on a half swing shows.

 

Coaches will sometimes "appeal" a call or ask you to get help, and if they can't or you don't need it just say so, politely if possible.

[noumpere]

The best way to handle at the end of the inning is for PU to wait until BU is all the way in the outfield and for BU to go deeper than normal.  Then send the manager out there.  Have the BU listen politely and intently, and maybe ask some clarification questions.  Then BU says "no".  Manager has to walk all the way in.

[kylejt]

PU shouldn't say anything, I think we can all agree on that, now.

 

And stop trying to think of smart ass responses, which you never remember to blurt out in real time. Just let the manager go ask his question, and let the BU deal with him.

 

Can I appeal when a foul tip hits me?

[blue23ll]

If a coach comes to me asking for help and I haven't been asked by my partner, I will direct the coach to my partner. I cover this in my pre-game. "If you have a question about a call, ask for time and when it's granted, go the umpire that made the call".  Notice I didn't say "appeal".

[immaculate1976]

It really makes me mad when a coach comes out and talks to my partner about a call I just made. Come talk to me you idiot. All I better hear in that case is not my call coach or someone is getting there a$$ chewed after the game

[noumpere]

It really makes me mad when a coach comes out and talks to my partner about a call I just made. Come talk to me you idiot. All I better hear in that case is not my call coach or someone is getting there a$$ chewed after the game

If you see a coach going out and it was your call, tell the coach that "Hey Bill, that was my call, come here and I'll discuss it"

[umpire_scott]

If a coach comes to me asking for help and I haven't been asked by my partner, I will direct the coach to my partner. I cover this in my pre-game. "If you have a question about a call, ask for time and when it's granted, go the umpire that made the call".  Notice I didn't say "appeal".

 

I also cover this at plate meetings.  I use this exact wording basically.  For the "daddy coaches" I add "don't ask one umpire to rule on another umpire's call". 

 

And even when I do that I've had coaches ask me as PU if I they can appeal to me for a pulled foot.  On cases where there was a runner coming home or going to third I have said "I had the runner here so I was not able to look for the pulled foot".  This just saves the time of the coach going to my partner, my partner coming to me, and then my partner reitereating his original call.  But I also see the merit in simply stating "you'll have to talk to my partner it's his decision whether he comes to me for help".

[BigUmpire]

I think we all have this mistaken impression that these RATS are paying attention at the plate meeting.

[Replacematt]

...as well as a mistaken impression that plate meetings are for things other than introductions, lineups, and ground rules.

[umpire_scott]

...as well as a mistaken impression that plate meetings are for things other than introductions, lineups, and ground rules.

 

Plate meetings can also be to cover any tournament rules that need to be known such as what rule set is being used (this was especially important this year with the new fake to third balk rule), whether there are warnings for balks, etc.  So in some circumstances it is appropriate to address how the umpires should be addressed.  It's called preventive umpiring.

[BigUmpire]

 

...as well as a mistaken impression that plate meetings are for things other than introductions, lineups, and ground rules.

 

Plate meetings can also be to cover any tournament rules that need to be known such as what rule set is being used (this was especially important this year with the new fake to third balk rule), whether there are warnings for balks, etc.  So in some circumstances it is appropriate to address how the umpires should be addressed.  It's called preventive umpiring.

 

SOOO you believe they are listening?

[blue23ll]

...as well as a mistaken impression that plate meetings are for things other than introductions, lineups, and ground rules.

 

Oh it's for that TOO! 

[umpire_scott]

 

 

...as well as a mistaken impression that plate meetings are for things other than introductions, lineups, and ground rules.

 

Plate meetings can also be to cover any tournament rules that need to be known such as what rule set is being used (this was especially important this year with the new fake to third balk rule), whether there are warnings for balks, etc.  So in some circumstances it is appropriate to address how the umpires should be addressed.  It's called preventive umpiring.

 

SOOO you believe they are listening?

 

 

I'm sure a few of them have.  I guess to me it's worth it to take that few extra seconds if it keeps one coach in ten from asking me if I saw something on my partner's call.  But with the amount of times they do it anyway your point is well-taken.

[BigUmpire]

I called with an old guy one time that at his plate meeting would ask: “You guys good coaches that have done this before? “Yes†they would answer. He would ask “Any questionsâ€. “No†they would answer most of the time.

He would say “let’s play ballâ€.

[UmpK]

We've all worked with partners who try to cover everything at the plate meeting (3-5min).

None of them are on my list of favorite partners to work with. 

We all love to work with the guys who keep it short and address any problem that does arise quickly and efficiently during the game.

If I am familiar with a problem with certain teams or rules with the league or tourneys, get that cleared up at the plate before the games.

[blue23ll]

We have a few mandatory things that we need to cover in FED, in addition to intro's, line-ups and ground rules. The meeting usually lasts no more than 2 minutes, tops.

[zm1283]

...as well as a mistaken impression that plate meetings are for things other than introductions, lineups, and ground rules.

 +1

 

From working with newer (1st/2nd year) umpires this summer, the plate meeting is the biggest game management problem that most of them have.  Don't know where to put their mask, how to handle lineup cards, trying to hold all five baseballs while taking lineup cards, talking too much, not knowing what to cover and what not to cover, etc.  Even the guys who do a solid job on the field have a problem with it.  I can't say too much about the new guys though because I worked first base in a high school playoff game this spring and the third base umpire didn't quit talking during the entire plate meeting.