Would you balk this?

[umpire_scott]

This might be a HTBT situation but I'll try to explain it as well as I can.  I was PU and my partner balked this over the weekend.  I did not see it and when the coach questioned it and I watched my partner sort of show the coach what he did I still don't think I would have balked it.

 

The pitcher would slowly bring his hands together and just after stopping the hand movement he sort of nod his head.  I partner was calling the head nod as either a second set or a feint of some sort.  Because his hands didn't really move I had nothing.

[scrounge]

would have to see it but as I'm envisioning it in my head? Not going there myself....maybe if it's a sudden move or jerky, but just some barely there nervous tic or quirk? I doubt it's worth getting all OOO about it.

[JaxRolo]

He can do whatever he wants with his head. The can even do the "exorcist" thing and spin his head all the way around if he wants,

[mstaylor]

As long as everything else is still I could care less what he does with his head. Has the PU never seen a pitcher set and look back at second?

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[umpire_scott]

To be fair when he nodded his head his upper body sort of came along with it a little bit.  But his hands did not move and so I had him simply finishing "coming set".  When I heard him call the balk I did not have any clue why he was calling it.  Then I saw him show the coach and I thought in my head that he's been doing that all game and it looked fine to me.  Of course after that he stopped it and so I was not able to see it again.

 

I know I probably should have asked my partner afterwards, but there was no way I was engaging this guy in a conversation about it.  #1 it would have ended up last 1/2 hour, and #2 it would have had zero positive outcome.

[BigUmp56]

To be fair when he nodded his head his upper body sort of came along with it a little bit.  But his hands did not move and so I had him simply finishing "coming set".  When I heard him call the balk I did not have any clue why he was calling it.  Then I saw him show the coach and I thought in my head that he's been doing that all game and it looked fine to me.  Of course after that he stopped it and so I was not able to see it again.

 

I know I probably should have asked my partner afterwards, but there was no way I was engaging this guy in a conversation about it.  #1 it would have ended up last 1/2 hour, and #2 it would have had zero positive outcome.

 

Scott,

 

It sounds like there may have been a possibility that he DID balk. HTBT, but if the movement of his upper body had him turning his shoulder toward first, it COULD have been judged as an illegal feint. The higher the level, the less amount of "opening" the shoulder toward first without a throw is permitted.

 

Tim.

[umpire_scott]

 

To be fair when he nodded his head his upper body sort of came along with it a little bit.  But his hands did not move and so I had him simply finishing "coming set".  When I heard him call the balk I did not have any clue why he was calling it.  Then I saw him show the coach and I thought in my head that he's been doing that all game and it looked fine to me.  Of course after that he stopped it and so I was not able to see it again.

 

I know I probably should have asked my partner afterwards, but there was no way I was engaging this guy in a conversation about it.  #1 it would have ended up last 1/2 hour, and #2 it would have had zero positive outcome.

 

Scott,

 

It sounds like there may have been a possibility that he DID balk. HTBT, but if the movement of his upper body had him turning his shoulder toward first, it COULD have been judged as an illegal feint. The higher the level, the less amount of "opening" the shoulder toward first without a throw is permitted.

 

Tim.

 

 

There was no turn of the shoulders at all.  And when my partner showed the coach he did not turn his shoulders either.  There was a runner on third, and the pitcher was RH, so maybe my partner looked at is as a feint towards 3B. 

[NCAAump2]

By what you have described, I don't think I've got anything.  It's hard to tell without seeing it actually happen, but F1 merely moving his head is nothing.

[Jimurray]

You can't balk with your head.

[HeadHunterLA]

really?  no way

[Jimurray]

really?  no way

Not that I can envision.

[sdix00]

IIITBWYH    

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[noumpere]

Agree with the others on the call and never demonstrate a balk to the coach (at least during a game -- if it's a clinic or something of course).  Just explain it.  If you demonstrate it you'll look like a fool, might fall down, might not balk etc. 

[umpire_scott]

Agree with the others on the call and never demonstrate a balk to the coach (at least during a game -- if it's a clinic or something of course).  Just explain it.  If you demonstrate it you'll look like a fool, might fall down, might not balk etc. 

 

That's interesting I've never thought of that.  I've oftentimes showed a pitcher what he did wrong, because sometimes the verbal explanation doesn't get through to them.  What if a coached asked you to show them?

[noumpere]

 

Agree with the others on the call and never demonstrate a balk to the coach (at least during a game -- if it's a clinic or something of course).  Just explain it.  If you demonstrate it you'll look like a fool, might fall down, might not balk etc. 

 

That's interesting I've never thought of that.  I've oftentimes showed a pitcher what he did wrong, because sometimes the verbal explanation doesn't get through to them.  What if a coached asked you to show them?

 

Respond with five words or less straight (more or less) from the rule book -- didn't stop; started and stopped; no step; feinted to third....

 

And, once the explanation has been given, theres no more discussion of it (at the higher levels) without a warning and or an ej.  In fact, it was taught at one time and might still be that the umpire kind of slaps his leg to indicate no step and there was to be NO discussion after that.

[Minnz]

 

Agree with the others on the call and never demonstrate a balk to the coach (at least during a game -- if it's a clinic or something of course).  Just explain it.  If you demonstrate it you'll look like a fool, might fall down, might not balk etc. 

 

That's interesting I've never thought of that.  I've oftentimes showed a pitcher what he did wrong, because sometimes the verbal explanation doesn't get through to them.  What if a coached asked you to show them?

 

If you show them what he did wrong, what happens if you don't do exactly what he did?  Now you just opened yourself up for more talking to the coach.  Umpires are there to enforce the rules now show them how they were broken visually.  

 

If you want visuals bring a PowerPoint presentations with you to had out on memory sticks anytime you need.  HAHA.

[Mike Prince]

 

 

Agree with the others on the call and never demonstrate a balk to the coach (at least during a game -- if it's a clinic or something of course).  Just explain it.  If you demonstrate it you'll look like a fool, might fall down, might not balk etc. 

 

That's interesting I've never thought of that.  I've oftentimes showed a pitcher what he did wrong, because sometimes the verbal explanation doesn't get through to them.  What if a coached asked you to show them?

 

Respond with five words or less straight (more or less) from the rule book -- didn't stop; started and stopped; no step; feinted to third....

 

And, once the explanation has been given, theres no more discussion of it (at the higher levels) without a warning and or an ej.  In fact, it was taught at one time and might still be that the umpire kind of slaps his leg to indicate no step and there was to be NO discussion after that.

 

 

This pretty much nails it on all levels.  Don't show F1 what he did wrong, let the coach do his job and do that.  Your job is to recognize and call the balk.

[umpire_scott]

Does level of play change your thoughts on not visually explaining?  For example last night I was doing a 12U select league and the pitcher was balking by straddling the rubber and then coming set as he was moving his foot to be in contact with the plate.  I verbally explained it, and he continued to do it.  After the second balk call the coach also was not understanding why I was calling the balk.  I then visually showed the coach, who called time and went and talked to his pitcher.  When he talked to him he visually showed him the same thing I had showed him and everything was fine after that.

[noumpere]

No it doesn't and Im not quite sure that what you described was a balk anyway but I might be mis-imagining what you are saying.

[umpire_scott]

No it doesn't and Im not quite sure that what you described was a balk anyway but I might be mis-imagining what you are saying.

 

Imagine a pitcher straddling the rubber.  Then in one motion he brings his back foot into contact with the rubber while at the same time bringing his hands together and coming set.  He essentially was beginning his motion to come set while not in contact with the pitching plate.

[Rich Ives]

 

No it doesn't and Im not quite sure that what you described was a balk anyway but I might be mis-imagining what you are saying.

 

Imagine a pitcher straddling the rubber.  Then in one motion he brings his back foot into contact with the rubber while at the same time bringing his hands together and coming set.  He essentially was beginning his motion to come set while not in contact with the pitching plate.

 

 

Where does it say he cannot do that?  I cannot find any requirement that the pitcher be engaged in order to start coming set., The rule just says he has to come set in a continuous motion.

[blue23ll]

I know of no rule that states a pitcher must be in contact with the rubber when he comes to a set position. Now, if he doesn't come to a set, then I have a balk. This move can very easily turn into a 'quick pitch' too.

[noumpere]

and he cant take the runner with his hands together which is how I was kind of reading what the play was.  But that's not a balk neither.

[umpire_scott]

8.05(g) says a pitcher shall make no movement generally associated with his pitch, while straddling the rubber.

 

So you are telling me that's it'e legal to stand straddling the rubber and then in one motion bring your hands together and come in contact with the rubber?  So then it's also legal to come to the rubber with your hands already together then?

[blue23ll]

Scott, I don't have my rule book in front of me, but is that all 8.05(g) says?