8.05d....throw to an unoccupied base

[calablue]

R2, F1(righthanded) in set position, has come to a complete stop.  R2 takes off for 3B as F1 picks his non pivot foot up in what was probably the start of his delivery, but he has not swung his foot backward nor has he made any motion toward the plate committing to a pitch.  Upon hearing his teammates yelling that the runner was going, he steps toward and throws to 3B (no pause in his motion).  R2 out! Did we get this right for what I have described?  

     As I understand the rule:

              a)   if R2 had faked a steal and F1 had thrown to 3B it would have been a balk. 

              b)   if R2 had started stealing and stopped because he realized he would be put out

                      (umpire judgement on this) then the throw to 3B would still be legal because it was  

                        to make a play

              c)  If R2 is stealing it is legal.

 

Is this a correct understanding of the rule?

[KLAH316]

OUT!  Now jog back to "A" while people yell!

[NFUA_44]

R2, F1(righthanded) in set position, has come to a complete stop.  R2 takes off for 3B as F1 picks his non pivot foot up in what was probably the start of his delivery, but he has not swung his foot backward nor has he made any motion toward the plate committing to a pitch.  Upon hearing his teammates yelling that the runner was going, he steps toward and throws to 3B (no pause in his motion).  R2 out! Did we get this right for what I have described?  

     As I understand the rule:

              a)   if R2 had faked a steal and F1 had thrown to 3B it would have been a balk. 

              b)   if R2 had started stealing and stopped because he realized he would be put out

                      (umpire judgement on this) then the throw to 3B would still be legal because it was  

                        to make a play

              c)  If R2 is stealing it is legal.

 

Is this a correct understanding of the rule?

You got it right on.

[GreyhoundAggie]

In relation to this. WIth R1. Pitcher can not step to 2nd and get a stealing R1 there. He must step off correct?

[johnnyg08]

In relation to this. WIth R1. Pitcher can not step to 2nd and get a stealing R1 there. He must step off correct?

False

[GreyhoundAggie]

We screwed that one up the other day then. R1 went. Pticher did the classic move to 2nd and nailed him. Partner called balk and i wasn't sure. Coach was screaming "he didn't step off"

[maven]

Your point (a) can vary by rule set. You're correct for OBR. FED has a lower standard, which allows F1 to throw to an unoccupied advance base to "put out or drive back a runner." Any credible bluff legalizes a throw to the base ahead.

[noumpere]

In relation to this. WIth R1. Pitcher can not step to 2nd and get a stealing R1 there. He must step off correct?

Why would that be different than the play described?  Its legal to throw to an unoccupied base FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING A PLAY which is the part that way too many people skip right over in the rules books.

 

Your point (a) can vary by rule set. You're correct for OBR. FED has a lower standard, which allows F1 to throw to an unoccupied advance base to "put out or drive back a runner." Any credible bluff legalizes a throw to the base ahead.

Correct and I'd probably apply a generous description of "stealing" to the OBR rule in all youth type games so that it becomes nearly the same as the HS rule.

[calablue]

In relation to this. WIth R1. Pitcher can not step to 2nd and get a stealing R1 there. He must step off correct?

Rule book specifically states:   "With a runner on first base the pitcher may make a complete turn, without hesitating toward first and throw to second.  This is not to be interpreted as throwing to an unoccupied base."  (last two sentences in 8.05....after the approved rulings.) 

[maven]

Many newer umpires get caught up in what F1 MAY NOT do, and they get a little lost.

 

When we teach new umpires, I start with what a properly engaged F1 MAY do from either the windup or set:

• Pitch to the batter
• Legally disengage
• Step and throw/feint to a base

The last requires more qualification, of course, and FED prohibits pickoffs from the windup. But it makes understanding the balk provisions a little easier if we clarify what's permitted first.

[GreyhoundAggie]

Yeah. I was thinking it was not a balk. But doubted myself when my partner called it. The little voice was saying "he can do that to make a play"

 

Oh well. Next time.