BU Goes to PU for Call

[scrounge]

Who does the PU go to on a swipe tag at the plate?

 

Or, if working a 1 man, who does the plate umpire go to?

 

The same person in both cases

[Minnz]

He shouldn't be look at you to make the call, rather for any additional info you have. If you aren't sure there's an out, then you had him safe.

Again, this is a once a season mechanic, once a game is too much.

 

You have him safe?  When in doubt he's out!  Move the game along and sell the hell out of the out call.  

[Pops]

I'm coming into this topic late but I have a question based on the following assumptions:

1. Mechanic has been pre-gamed.

2. Association encourages BU making the call first before verbalizing to PU.

3. BU is in B and has a bad angle to 1B.

4. If it's a possible foot off the base but BU can't see it, BU's calling an out. And the question to PU is "Did he hold the base?"

5. If it's a possible tag on the swipe but BU can't see it, BU's calling him safe. And the question to PU is "Did he tag him?"

QUESTION:  If PU didn't see anything, what does he say in response to BU without sounding clueless? Doesn't PU just agree with BU's call?

[bam]

Who does the PU go to on a swipe tag at the plate?

 

Or, if working a 1 man, who does the plate umpire go to?

There is no plate umpire.  You're working behind the pitcher. 

[BalkHawk]

Was PU busy getting Gatorade or did he just not see anything additional that might change BU's call? If its the latter, either a balled fist or head shaking no. Yes, you just agree that the BU's call was outstanding.

[UMP45]

He shouldn't be look at you to make the call, rather for any additional info you have. If you aren't sure there's an out, then you had him safe.

Again, this is a once a season mechanic, once a game is too much.

 

You have him safe?  When in doubt he's out!  Move the game along and sell the hell out of the out call.  

So you make SH*# up/

[The Adjudicator]

Our Baseball Board teaches this mechanic that whenBU is in B or C he can go directly to PU for help on a pulled foot. As for those who say you might not be watching you have to understand the if your Board accepts this mechanic, you better be watching because its your responsibility.

"Joe, did he hold the bag?" "Yes, he did" "OUT!"

[yawetag]

Our Baseball Board teaches this mechanic that whenBU is in B or C he can go directly to PU for help on a pulled foot. As for those who say you might not be watching you have to understand the if your Board accepts this mechanic, you better be watching because its your responsibility.

"Joe, did he hold the bag?" "Yes, he did" "OUT!"

 

So who's watching R2 touch 3B? Who's watching R3 touch home? If R1 only, who's watching the continuing action at 2B?

 

If I can help, I will. But don't yell at me across the diamond. Make your call and if you're unsure AND the coach comes out and questions it, we'll huddle and talk. That way, I can say, "Sorry, R2 was rounding 3B at the same time and I had to make sure he touched. By the time I turned back to 1B, the play was over." I might even be able to tell you the foot was pulled.

 

However, yelling at me across the diamond gives the impression that I didn't do my job.

[Minnz]

 

He shouldn't be look at you to make the call, rather for any additional info you have. If you aren't sure there's an out, then you had him safe.

Again, this is a once a season mechanic, once a game is too much.

 

You have him safe?  When in doubt he's out!  Move the game along and sell the hell out of the out call.  

So you make SH*# up/

Make stuff up nope...looked out to me from what I didn't see.  I didn't see he was safe either haha.

[IABlue]

Our Baseball Board teaches this mechanic that whenBU is in B or C he can go directly to PU for help on a pulled foot. As for those who say you might not be watching you have to understand the if your Board accepts this mechanic, you better be watching because its your responsibility.

"Joe, did he hold the bag?" "Yes, he did" "OUT!"

 

So who's watching R2 touch 3B? Who's watching R3 touch home? If R1 only, who's watching the continuing action at 2B?

 

If I can help, I will. But don't yell at me across the diamond. Make your call and if you're unsure AND the coach comes out and questions it, we'll huddle and talk. That way, I can say, "Sorry, R2 was rounding 3B at the same time and I had to make sure he touched. By the time I turned back to 1B, the play was over." I might even be able to tell you the foot was pulled.

 

However, yelling at me across the diamond gives the impression that I didn't do my job.

I always laugh at this line of reasoning.  In a 2-man crew, you cannot possibly have perfect coverage.  Stuff is going to get missed.  You cannot see every single touch of a base, tag-up, etc. perfectly.  You have to draw a distinction between what is the most likely thing to happen, and what is the most likely to cause trouble in a game.

 

I can't even REMEMBER the last time I called a runner out for missing a base.  Seriously, it's been 10 years or more.  A pulled foot is an every game, or at least every-other-game, occurrence.  You can be damn sure that in a 2 man crew, with limited coverage, I am going to be watching for the MOST LIKELY thing that could make life difficult for my partner, and by extension, our crew as a whole.

 

If you don't like it, tough.  Want perfect coverage?  Then hire 4 umpires and we'll have a guy sitting right there at every base and we can see every single base touch perfectly.  Once you start cutting umpires, coverage is naturally going to suffer at least a little bit.  The wise umpire knows what to comprise in order to provide the best possible coverage while skimping on areas that are less likely to arise and/or have less importance.

 

It's the difference between knowing what the book says verbatim, and how to actually call a game.

[BalkHawk]

1. Fair/foul

2. Catch/no catch

3. Touches of bases

4. Creased cap/no crease

5 The play

[scrounge]

1. Fair/foul

2. Catch/no catch

3. Touches of bases

4. Creased cap/no crease

5 The play

 

You know, this kind of flippant answer really isn't helpful to the new umpires reading this who might not know you're kidding. They deserve a serious answer.

 

We all know that #3 is hot mom in tank top behind home plate.

[SoCal Lurker]

 

Our Baseball Board teaches this mechanic that whenBU is in B or C he can go directly to PU for help on a pulled foot. As for those who say you might not be watching you have to understand the if your Board accepts this mechanic, you better be watching because its your responsibility.

"Joe, did he hold the bag?" "Yes, he did" "OUT!"

 

So who's watching R2 touch 3B? Who's watching R3 touch home? If R1 only, who's watching the continuing action at 2B?

 

If I can help, I will. But don't yell at me across the diamond. Make your call and if you're unsure AND the coach comes out and questions it, we'll huddle and talk. That way, I can say, "Sorry, R2 was rounding 3B at the same time and I had to make sure he touched. By the time I turned back to 1B, the play was over." I might even be able to tell you the foot was pulled.

 

However, yelling at me across the diamond gives the impression that I didn't do my job.

I always laugh at this line of reasoning.  In a 2-man crew, you cannot possibly have perfect coverage.  Stuff is going to get missed.  You cannot see every single touch of a base, tag-up, etc. perfectly.  You have to draw a distinction between what is the most likely thing to happen, and what is the most likely to cause trouble in a game.

 

I can't even REMEMBER the last time I called a runner out for missing a base.  Seriously, it's been 10 years or more.  A pulled foot is an every game, or at least every-other-game, occurrence.  You can be damn sure that in a 2 man crew, with limited coverage, I am going to be watching for the MOST LIKELY thing that could make life difficult for my partner, and by extension, our crew as a whole.

 

If you don't like it, tough.  Want perfect coverage?  Then hire 4 umpires and we'll have a guy sitting right there at every base and we can see every single base touch perfectly.  Once you start cutting umpires, coverage is naturally going to suffer at least a little bit.  The wise umpire knows what to comprise in order to provide the best possible coverage while skimping on areas that are less likely to arise and/or have less importance.

 

It's the difference between knowing what the book says verbatim, and how to actually call a game.

 

but with only one you should see everything!  I watch my son's games, and F5s routinely (and obliviously) impede the runner at third base, typicaly by standing on it when no play is coming . . . but not gonna get called in a one man game, so I just sigh and wish the coaches were teaching them better (and ponder in the cynical part of my mind whether a couple of the coaches might be teaching them to do this in the knowledge it won't be called . . .)

 

Parentx are awlays going to want the calls to be made right for their little Johnyy . . .  and that's what they are watching even whenit is the 7th or 8th thing on the umprire priority list . . . same for all youth sports . . .

[yawetag]

 so I just sigh and wish the coaches were teaching them better (and ponder in the cynical part of my mind whether a couple of the coaches might be teaching them to do this in the knowledge it won't be called . . .)

 

Not to derail the conversation too far, but have you offered to help teach them?

[mstaylor]

IABlue, at the risk of sounding condescending  you won't call runners out for missing bases if you don't look. You have a job to do as the PU, if you can help your partner, fine, if you re doing your job and can't, such is life. If your BU is in the middle and can't tell if there was a pull or a swipe, and you can't help, there is nothing for the coach to talk about. He tells him he doesn't have the pull or doesn't have the swipe, end of discussion. Stuff happens, but the things going on the other side are important too. A run gets missed because the SS knocked the runner down, you miss it because you are watching first. That's like saying both officials should watch the ball in basketball and forget the off ball stuff. A game can't be done that way. 

[RichMSN]

There are specific times I'll put my eyes on the ball when it's not mine to look at. This is not one of them. Then again, I've asked for help on a swipe tag 3 times in 26 years, so it's not even something I really think about. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[SoCal Lurker]

 so I just sigh and wish the coaches were teaching them better (and ponder in the cynical part of my mind whether a couple of the coaches might be teaching them to do this in the knowledge it won't be called . . .)

 

Not to derail the conversation too far, but have you offered to help teach them?

 

When I'm coaching (which I'm not currently), yes.  When I'm helping with my son's team at a practice or at a game, yes.  But kinda hard to but in and tell opposing coaches how they should be coaching their kids (though I have mentioned it in one or two instances where I knew the coach and knew he'd take it in the spirit of teaching (whcih it was) and not think it was gamesmanship).

[StrikeToWin]

I realize that I am almost 2 months late to this post, but I had a very similar occurrence this weekend in a 12U AA tournament game.  R2, R3 no outs.  I'm in C and a sharp ground ball to F5.  R2 had broke immediately and realized R3 is staying put so I have moved to watch a tag on R2 that did not happen.  F5 then fires to F3 and I turn to make the call at first.  Ball beats the runner and I bang the out.  I am way out of position, but still made the call as I saw it from across the diamond.  1BC immediately asks for an appeal.  I will add that the coach for the offensive team did not yell or demand or anything other than in a voice that I can hear "Ump, can I appeal?  I think the first baseman pulled his foot."  He didn't come running onto the field or yell and as soon as I asked the PU, he said yes, he pulled his foot.  Wasn't ashamed at all to reverse the call in that sitch.