Test question....

[TommyJeansDE]

Larry is the DH for the pitcher. In the fourth inning, the coach
decides to have the pitcher bat for himself. In the sixth inning, the
coach decides to have Larry bat for the pitcher again. Before a pitch
is thrown to Larry, the defense appeals.

 a.

• Since the defense appealed before a pitch was thrown, the offensive team may replace Larry without penalty
• b.Once Larry is removed from the DH's role, he may subsequently return to the game but only as a pitcher.
• c.Larry is ejected but is not called out. His substitute will assume Larry's position at the plate.
• d.Larry is called out and disqualified from the game.

I say b is a true statement but not sure its the correct answer.....

[Haid D' Salaami]

C

[jjskitours]

C? I have D - Rule 5j(1). Please cite your rule for C

[johnnyg08]

After reviewing the test, it states that the answer is "a"

 

5-5j (1) & (3)

[jjskitours]

Hard to understand. Even in Fed the illegal substitute batter is out upon entering the batter's box, NO PITCH required. The rule cited says nothing about before a pitch is made.

Both NF and Pro rules consider a substitute to have entered the game when announced and absent an announcement, when a batter takes his place in the batter's box. NCAA?

[noumpere]

Hard to understand. Even in Fed the illegal substitute batter is out upon entering the batter's box, NO PITCH required. The rule cited says nothing about before a pitch is made.

Both NF and Pro rules consider a substitute to have entered the game when announced and absent an announcement, when a batter takes his place in the batter's box. NCAA?

I agree and this is the one question which I missed.  I put the "out and ejected" answer.

 

Of course a good umpire wouldn't allow the substitution anyway so it wouldnt be an issue.  That means it will happen in my game. lol.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Yea I put he was ejected, but I was wrong, I didnt read the whole question and answered quickly.. the right answer is A.

[Jimurray]

Yea I put he was ejected, but I was wrong, I didnt read the whole question and answered quickly.. the right answer is A.

Using the NCAA rule reference why wouldn't "D" be the correct answer? The only thing a pitch would do is negate removing a run scored.

[noumpere]

Yea I put he was ejected, but I was wrong, I didnt read the whole question and answered quickly.. the right answer is A.

Why is that the right answer?  I know it's the answer that they are looking for but I don't understand it.

[alex7]

 5-5-j:

 

Should a withdrawn (disqualified) player re-enter the game:

(1) If on offense, whether as a batter or a runner, upon discovery by 

the opposing team or an umpire, the player immediately shall be 

declared out and disqualified from the game

 

And this is under "substitutions", stating that a withdrawn player is a substituted player on reference (f), so it's not talking about ejected players.

[Replacematt]

I think they messed up the answer. I'm still getting D, even after reviewing the rule for the umpteenth time.

[Jocko]

A sounds like a BOO answer

[Replacematt]

 

Hard to understand. Even in Fed the illegal substitute batter is out upon entering the batter's box, NO PITCH required. The rule cited says nothing about before a pitch is made.

Both NF and Pro rules consider a substitute to have entered the game when announced and absent an announcement, when a batter takes his place in the batter's box. NCAA?

 

The same. 5-5-g.

[johnnyg08]

I think the entire country got that question wrong.  

[UmpJM]

It's a horribly-worded question because it does not state whether the illegal substitute has entered the batter's box or not at the time the opponents call his ineligibility to the umpire's attention.

Since they want "a" for the answer, apparently the person who wrote the question wanted the illegal sub called to the umpire's attention before he entered the batter's box.

Terrible question that only tests mind-reading ability.

The NCAA should be embarrassed to have the question on the test.

JM

[johnnyg08]

 5-5-j:

 

Should a withdrawn (disqualified) player re-enter the game:

(1) If on offense, whether as a batter or a runner, upon discovery by 

the opposing team or an umpire, the player immediately shall be 

declared out and disqualified from the game

 

And this is under "substitutions", stating that a withdrawn player is a substituted player on reference (f), so it's not talking about ejected players.

 

 

I found this exact thing word-for-word and answered the question appropriately.  Oh well.  Test writing is hard.  

[Haid D' Salaami]

It's a horribly-worded question because it does not state whether the illegal substitute has entered the batter's box or not at the time the opponents call his ineligibility to the umpire's attention.

Since they want "a" for the answer, apparently the person who wrote the question wanted the illegal sub called to the umpire's attention before he entered the batter's box.

Terrible question that only tests mind-reading ability.

The NCAA should be embarrassed to have the question on the test.

JM

he doesnt have to enter the batters box, once the Br is put before him he is now the legal batter, or if the 3rd out in an inning, he is now the legal batter.

[johnnyg08]

So what did we all miss, OK including you to get it wrong?

[Jimurray]

It's a horribly-worded question because it does not state whether the illegal substitute has entered the batter's box or not at the time the opponents call his ineligibility to the umpire's attention.

Since they want "a" for the answer, apparently the person who wrote the question wanted the illegal sub called to the umpire's attention before he entered the batter's box.

Terrible question that only tests mind-reading ability.

The NCAA should be embarrassed to have the question on the test.

JM

he doesnt have to enter the batters box, once the Br is put before him he is now the legal batter, or if the 3rd out in an inning, he is now the legal batter.

If he was unannounced he does not become the sub until he enters the batters box. If he was announced then the umpire would make the change and if he was keeping the lineup properly tell the coach that Larry is out and disqualified per 5-5-j-1. No, just kidding, like HS we should tell the coach he can't do that. But if the illegal sub was missed and appealed by the other team I guess NCAA is telling us to correct the situation if there was no pitch.

[UmpJM]

...

he doesnt have to enter the batters box, once the Br is put before him he is now the legal batter, or if the 3rd out in an inning, he is now the legal batter.

HDS,

That's not what the rulebook says:

...Should there be no announcement of substitution, the substitute becomes

a legal player when:

...

(4) A batter enters the batter’s box.

JM

[Jocko]

Mmmm. Listen to Yoda, you must. The rule will he correctly cite. Ehh-heh-heh. Knowledge of rules he has. The force flows strongly.

[BT_Blue]

Mmmm. Listen to Yoda, you must. The rule will he correctly cite. Ehh-heh-heh. Knowledge of rules he has. The force flows strongly.

 

So what you are saying is that both Jim and JM shot first. ;)

[Jimurray]

See this thread for the updated answer to the question which on my test review was D. http://umpire-empire.com/index.php/topic/52045-ncaa-test-change/