Improper batter/balk/HBP

[ikeequa]

Hi,

Having trouble with the following situation:

 

Bases loaded, 0 outs.

Wrong batter at the plate. (E instead of D)

Pitcher balks but still throws pitch which hits batter.

Batter takes first base and all runners advance 1 base. Balk is therefore ignored. Defense appeals the batting out of turn.

What happens next?

Is it 1 out, bases loaded?

Is it 1 out, 1 run in, runners on 2nd and 3rd?

Is it 1 run in, runners on 2nd and 3rd, and wrong batter still at the plate?

 

Please explain it so that a 3-year-old can understand it. My colleagues and I are trying to figure this one out and no one can explain it so that everyone understands.

 

Thanks.

Paul

[ikeequa]

I think I posted this in the wrong forum earlier. Can someone help please?

 

 

Having trouble with the following situation:

 

Bases loaded, 0 outs.

Wrong batter at the plate. (E instead of D)

Pitcher balks but still throws pitch which hits batter.

Batter takes first base and all runners advance 1 base. Balk is therefore ignored. Defense appeals the batting out of turn.

What happens next?

Is it 1 out, bases loaded?

Is it 1 out, 1 run in, runners on 2nd and 3rd?

Is it 1 run in, runners on 2nd and 3rd, and wrong batter still at the plate?

 

Please explain it so that a 3-year-old can understand it. My colleagues and I are trying to figure this one out and no one can explain it so that everyone understands.

 

Thanks.

Paul

[Replacematt]

Three things to remember:

The proper batter is always called out on proper appeal.

No runners can advance by virtue of the batter becoming a runner.

Nothing changes during the AB absent a proper appeal; everything stands as played.

 

I think you may be thinking that the balk would be enforced if an appeal were made. The answer is no. The AB ended on the HBP. The appeal nullifies the actions of the batter, and because the runners advanced because he became a runner, they get returned. D is out, E is up.

[ikeequa]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the quick response. That is the solution I have come up with. If the balk had happened 1 pitch earlier, then 1 run would count, but because it happened in conjunction with the HBP, the run doesn't count.

On a batting out of turn, no runner may advance through the actions of the batter.

I live in Germany and I am fighting with the German umps who argue that it is 1 out, 1 run in, runners on 2nd and 3rd.

[umpcoachfather]

What rule set? 

[JaxRolo]

What rule set are you using?

[JaxRolo]

What rule set?

[JaxRolo]

Sorry father didn't see your post?

[Replacematt]

What rule set? 

It's not FED, that's for sure.

[JaxRolo]

What rule set?

It's not FED, that's for sure.

Why not?

[Replacematt]

The ball wouldn't be live on the balk.

[JaxRolo]

Exactly. So that's the first thing he needs to know.

 

Fed Rules Nothing matters after the balk. OBR it does.

 

He needs to know which rule set he is playing under.

[ikeequa]

Official MLB rules of baseball. Well, over here in Germany, the minor league rules, but there is not much difference.

[ikeequa]

We play by the official MLB rules/minor league rules where the balk is a delayed dead ball.

[BT_Blue]

Fed the improper batter would just be replaced because the ab wasn't over... correct?

[noumpere]

I'll go with door number 2.  The guy who should of batted is out so now all runners and batter didnt advance so now the balk is enforced.  that advances all the previous runners you remove the batter (e0 from the base, D is out and now E bats again.

[noumpere]

Fed the improper batter would just be replaced because the ab wasn't over... correct?

 

Correct and the balk would stand so the runners would advance.

[Rich Ives]

Hi,

Having trouble with the following situation:

 

Bases loaded, 0 outs.

Wrong batter at the plate. (E instead of D)

Pitcher balks but still throws pitch which hits batter.

Batter takes first base and all runners advance 1 base. Balk is therefore ignored. Defense appeals the batting out of turn.

What happens next?

Is it 1 out, bases loaded?

Is it 1 out, 1 run in, runners on 2nd and 3rd?

Is it 1 run in, runners on 2nd and 3rd, and wrong batter still at the plate?

 

Please explain it so that a 3-year-old can understand it. My colleagues and I are trying to figure this one out and no one can explain it so that everyone understands.

 

Thanks.

Paul

 

OBR:

 

"D" is out.. The batter who should have batted (the proper batter)  is always the one called out.

 

"E" bats again as he is now the proper batter.

 

As the runner's advances were NOT as a result of the batter becoming a runner those advances stand.  (They advanced on the balk but the batter did not because he was out so the balk stands).

[JaxRolo]

Fed the improper batter would just be replaced because the ab wasn't over... correct?

 

Correct and the balk would stand so the runners would advance.

Concur

[ikeequa]

OBR:

 

"D" is out.. The batter who should have batted (the proper batter)  is always the one called out.

 

"E" bats again as he is not the proper batter.

 

As the runner's advances were NOT as a result of the batter becoming a runner those advances stand.  (They advanced on the balk but the batter did not because he was out so the balk stands).

This is where the trouble is. The runners advanced because of the HBP. In this case the Balk is a delayed dead ball where the pitcher still delivers a pitch and hits the batter -> everyone advances one base. Play over. Now the appeal. Rule 6.07 states that all advances due to the batter's action are annulled. They all advanced on the HBP (batter's action). If we ignore the HBP and enforce the balk, then there are still no outs, 1 run in and runners on 2/3 and the offense has a chance to send the right batter to the plate.

 

This is why we are having such a lively argument over here.

[ikeequa]

But we're playing MLB or OBR rules, not Fed.

[JaxRolo]

But we're playing MLB or OBR rules, not Fed.

 

You got your answer already so we are just Saying

[ikeequa]

That is the answer I came up with before I posted and I am glad the answer given here was the same. But, I am having a discussion with the other umps here and they all say 1 out, 1 run, runners on 2nd & 3rd. Since I am new here, I first posted this same question under "Ask the Umpire" by mistake before I saw the "Situation" board and got a different answer. Now I am unsure again. I just want to be able to go back to the umps here with a definite answer.

[Jocko]

Take it step by step.

1. Balk. DDB. Set that aside.

2. HBP, runners advance.

3. Appeal for improper batter.

Ok, now apply the rules

3. Batter "D" is out for BOO

2. HBP is nullified, so runners would return to TOP base

EXCEPT.........

Remember that pesky balk?

Now apply the penalty for the balk, so leave the runner on advanced base.

So what you end up with, is the runners advenced on the balk, the HBP is nullified by proper appeal on the BOO, "E" is at bat with R2, R3, and 1 out.

[grayhawk]

Just point them to 6.07 ( b ).  It's cut and dried, and even mentions what happens when the batter becomes a runner when he is HPB.

 

When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and the defensive team

appeals to the umpire before the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or

before any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare the proper batter

out; and (2) nullify any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the

improper batter or because of the improper batter’s advance to first base on a hit, an

error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise.