"Wheres that pitch"

[AllanA]

When the Coach yells at the catcher "Wheres that pitch". This is on a close one that is out of the zone but from his vantage point looks good. What is your response if any to the catcher?

Do you tell him it was outside or inside so he can convey that to the Coach?

My response is usually "It wasn't in the zone"!

your comments?

Allan

[BrianC14]

When the Coach yells at the catcher "Wheres that pitch". This is on a close one that is out of the zone but from his vantage point looks good. What is your response if any to the catcher?

Do you tell him it was outside or inside so he can convey that to the Coach?

My response is usually "It wasn't in the zone"!

your comments?

Allan

From his vantage point? Most catchers I've worked with would have 95% of pitches as strikes.... it's in their nature.

But as for a response, I'd say your response is OK; I've used something similar, but I also include a gentle (first time) reminder of, "When it's a strike, you'll know it, because I'll call it."

That usually ends it right there.

[jjb]

My response? "Better tell him the truth, Catch"

[Umpire in Chief]

I let the catcher say what he wants 99% of the time I find they're either honest or they know the ramifications of trying to show an umpire up.

I do not mind the coach asking either, just as long as it's not after every pitch.

[LMSANS]

I let the catcher say what he wants 99% of the time I find they're either honest or they know the ramifications of trying to show an umpire up.

I do not mind the coach asking either, just as long as it's not after every pitch.

I'm with Warren on this. I don't mind the coach asking, the catcher's response better be accurate.

[Kyle_Stevens]

This didn't happen to me but my dad, years ago when he umpired baseball. He had a high school game, one of the coaches had something to say just about every pitch. Anyway, sometime in the middle of the game his team was on defense. The pitch comes in and is called a ball. Coach yells at his catcher, "Where was that one?" Young catcher replies, "It was outside by about this much!", holding his pointer fingers apart about 8-10 inches. My dad said he could see the coach turn red and my dad had the biggest smile. Thanks catcher!

[Majordave]

When I was in the Army some of my soldiers started a funny response to any question that begins with "Where is........ at?

The response was "If it/he was up your ass you'd know where it/he is, wouldn't you?

It got pretty hilarious listening to those guys and some of us Officers started saying it to each other.

Anyway, now when I hear a coach ask that more than twice a game I think about saying that. I don't but maybe one day I will let it slip. Probably at some stupid 13 year old summer game with a daddy coach (I really don't like those guys.)

DC Teater

[BrianC14]

When I was in the Army some of my soldiers started a funny response to any question that begins with "Where is........ at?

The response was "If it/he was up your ass you'd know where it/he is, wouldn't you?

It got pretty hilarious listening to those guys and some of us Officers started saying it to each other.

Anyway, now when I hear a coach ask that more than twice a game I think about saying that. I don't but maybe one day I will let it slip. Probably at some stupid 13 year old summer game with a daddy coach (I really don't like those guys.)

DC Teater

ROFL - we Navy guys used that quite often as well.

Now I'm going to be chuckling about that (and this thread) the first time I hear some coach yell, "Where was that one?"

And who knows? Maybe I'll actually USE it! :(

[Umpire in Chief]

Off topic alert:

I'm not prior service, but earlier in my career I worked in an organization where I was the only non-prior service employee. Their line was, "If it was up your ass eating a ham sandwhich you'd know..."

This was a "sales" organization and another cool thing which I never got to participate in was when somebody would close a deal they'd take their staple remover and click it and go around the room each saying a phrase related to their branch like: "The few, the proud, the Marines" or "It's not a job it's an adventure." Well we'd get to our team leader who was prior Air Force and he'd always come up with a gem like, "Get those G.. D... marines off our golf course"

[Dragon29]

I let the catcher say what he wants 99% of the time I find they're either honest or they know the ramifications of trying to show an umpire up.

I do not mind the coach asking either, just as long as it's not after every pitch.

I concur - there's usually no need to say anything - but, for AllanA . . .

If the coach asks this question too often (say, every close pitch) I'd leave F2 alone and between innings, pull your line-up card out and go talk to the manager - tell him to stop asking that question and that he can talk to his catcher between innings.

The reason for this is that if he does it too often, it's a passive-aggressive way of arguing balls and strikes - do not allow it to continue.

Now, some 'friendly' managers will take the next step and tell you they're just trying to chart pitches. Tell him he can chart pitches all he wants, but that's not your job.

[BrianC14]

....

The reason for this is that if he does it too often, it's a passive-aggressive way of arguing balls and strikes - do not allow it to continue.

Now, some 'friendly' managers will take the next step and tell you they're just trying to chart pitches. Tell him he can chart pitches all he wants, but that's not your job.

Agreed. In this sitch, I may even inquire of the offending coach: "Will you be able to chart them from the parking lot?"

:shrug:

[Bob Bainter]

From his vantage point? Most catchers I've worked with would have 95% of pitches as strikes.... it's in their nature.

But as for a response, I'd say your response is OK; I've used something similar, but I also include a gentle (first time) reminder of, "When it's a strike, you'll know it, because I'll call it."

That usually ends it right there.

I agree that you should just let the catcher tell him where it was. Then, if you think he lied to the coach, that's when you need to address the issue. You have to be careful what you say to the catcher. Trust me, from experience, WHATEVER you say behind the plate will be repeated as soon as the catcher goes in the dugout. Once, I even told a catcher, "Tell him it's outside...I'll tell you why in a second." The catcher waved "outside" with his glove, and then I said, "I missed that pitch, you can tell him I said that when you get back in there. Just don't need to yell that to him across the field." I'm not saying admit everything, but sometimes you have to learn alternate ways of dealing with situations. I just didn't want him to have to feel like if he was honest he was sticking it up my $^#, and I didn't want to yell across the diamond that I missed it. :shrug:

[Bob Bainter]

I concur - there's usually no need to say anything - but, for AllanA . . .

If the coach asks this question too often (say, every close pitch) I'd leave F2 alone and between innings, pull your line-up card out and go talk to the manager - tell him to stop asking that question and that he can talk to his catcher between innings.

The reason for this is that if he does it too often, it's a passive-aggressive way of arguing balls and strikes - do not allow it to continue.

Now, some 'friendly' managers will take the next step and tell you they're just trying to chart pitches. Tell him he can chart pitches all he wants, but that's not your job.

I remember a story when I was in the Florida State League and the late George Maloney (AL) was a supervisor for us. We were talking about when to avoid and when to confront the dugout on "Where's that pitch?" He said, "If a manager wants to know where a pitch is, he'll ask. I say ignore them. If he really wants to know, he'll repeat himself. If he's not concerned and just wants to be heard, he'll drop it. Wait until he repeats himself, sometimes twice. Trust me, he won't drop it if he thinks you missed it. That's when you respond." (I paraphrased that...best I could remember it.)

Sage advice from a damn good man

[AllanA]

Man you guys are great. I'll give 'em abt 2 in the first inning then I'll put a stop to it. I won't let go on. In my area I know 90% of the Varsity coaches so they know where my zone is normally. The ones I have the most trouble with is sub Varsity because I don't do them very much. I was just curious what others did to handle this. This thread got more attention than I expected.

Thanks,

Allan

[PeteBooth]

My response? "Better tell him the truth, Catch"

I STRONGLY disagree with the aforementioned.

F2 is in a precarious situation. He wants playing time so IMO do not put F2 "on the spot"

It's the coach NOT the player you should address. F2 is not asking you where the pitch was His coach is.

If it's a one/ two time "thing" I simply ignore. If it's every inning it's simple

Me: "Skip we are not doing this all game long" or "Skip you are not arguing balls / strikes are you?"

Normally that will put an end to it and we move on.

In summary: Do not put F2 "on the spot" and he will appreciate it. Remember F2 is "your buddy" so do not upset the "apple cart"

Pete Booth

[DonInKansas]

F2 is in a precarious situation. He wants playing time so IMO do not put F2 "on the spot"

In summary: Do not put F2 "on the spot" and he will appreciate it. Remember F2 is "your buddy" so do not upset the "apple cart"

I'm with Pete here. Unless it's a situation where F2 has done something egregious, I'm not ticking off the guy standing between me and those 80mph and up fastballs. I try to operate as if the catcher wants his coach to shut up and let him catch. (I've actually heard this more than once from a few guys.) Deal with the coach, not the catcher.

[BrianC14]

I STRONGLY disagree with the aforementioned.

F2 is in a precarious situation. He wants playing time so IMO do not put F2 "on the spot"

It's the coach NOT the player you should address. F2 is not asking you where the pitch was His coach is.

If it's a one/ two time "thing" I simply ignore. If it's every inning it's simple

Me: "Skip we are not doing this all game long" or "Skip you are not arguing balls / strikes are you?"

Normally that will put an end to it and we move on.

In summary: Do not put F2 "on the spot" and he will appreciate it. Remember F2 is "your buddy" so do not upset the "apple cart"

Pete Booth

Agreed. When this has come up in the past, I simply (and quietly) tell F2: "Go ahead, tell him." Any catcher with 1/2 a brain is going to be honest about it... because he KNOWS he's got to get his at-bats, too.

As for the question "Skip you are not arguing balls / strikes are you?"....

I would refrain from asking an open-ended question like this - the coach is certainly not going to say, "Yes, I was arguing balls and strikes". His answer is going to be "No, I wasn't I was just... yada yada yada...." Don't give a coach that wiggle room. YOU as the umpire know what he's up to - I would simply stick to the first statement that Pete made - and what I typically use is: "Skip, we're not going to do that today." If it persists, then the coach has just moved himself to the problem zone, but you haven't forced him there.

[catoblue]

If he's asking the catcher on one that looks close from the bench... I'll let the catcher tell him what he saw. I've been fortunate to generally work behind some decent catchers, who will tell it like it is.

As a coach, I'll ask my catcher where it is so that I can have him adjust his target to help the pitcher throw strikes. Generally we have umpires that are consistent for both teams, but now and then we'll have a "daddy-ump" whose zone is ankles to chin when my team is up and 6" above and below the belt when his kid's team is up. Those guys are just as bad as Daddy-Rat coaches.

[Stan W.]

I remember a story when I was in the Florida State League and the late George Maloney (AL) was a supervisor for us. We were talking about when to avoid and when to confront the dugout on "Where's that pitch?" He said, "If a manager wants to know where a pitch is, he'll ask. I say ignore them. If he really wants to know, he'll repeat himself. If he's not concerned and just wants to be heard, he'll drop it. Wait until he repeats himself, sometimes twice. Trust me, he won't drop it if he thinks you missed it. That's when you respond." (I paraphrased that...best I could remember it.)

Sage advice from a damn good man

I had a coach who asked that on every pitch.......and I just ignored him...he finally said...why are you ignoring me, I can ask where that pitch was cant I?....

I just said you can ask coach, but it doesnt mean I have to answer.....B)

[mstaylor]

My very first Legion game was a plate, which I didn't know until we almost there. The manager was a real piece of work that drove everybody nuts. I balled a really nice pitch that was on the outside corner. The manager asked his catcher where it was? He told him it was outside. Then he looks over his shoulder and asked me what was wrong with it. I told not to be afraid to go there again. We had a good night after that.