Neighborhood Play / Phantom tag

[PeteBooth]

Hi all:

Warren since you started the FYC OP let's continue

For those of you that do not use the FYC etc. and think that using the FYC approach is unethical bad umpiring or whatever what about

1. The neighborhood play

2. Phantom tag play

The neighborhood play - As the word suggests, if a player is in the 'neighborhood" or more commonly refererred to as the vicinity of the bag and we had a good throw, player out by a good margin we give the out call at second base without the player having to TOUCH the base.

The aforementioned has been accepted through time

The phantom tag - As the word suggests not an actual tag but we make the out call.

Example: R1 stealing. F2's throw right at the bag in PLENTY of time to get R1, Glove where it's supposed to be = out.

Therefore, do the masses give the neighborhood / phantom tag play?

For those that said they would not use an FYC but give the neighborhood / phantom tag play - what's your rationale for not using the FYC?

Let's keep up the good discussions

Pete Booth

[mstaylor]

The neighborhood play came into use at the pro level to protect players on the crash at second. It filtered down to the college and HS levels. While the advent of the FPSR has lessed the need at the two lower levels it still can be used when needed. I would never consider it at anything lower than HS. If used the timing still has to be there. He can't go by the bag then catch the ball. They don't even do that at the Pro level.

The phantom tag is a different question. If it is all routine then there is a place for it. We all work mostly two man or even worse, one man. If so then many times you are doing your best to get there, especially in one man. There is a adage about making the expected call for the level you are working. If everyone thinks he is out, who are you to argue.

Now, if anything in the tag is weird then call what you have. If the runner does something unexpected to be safe then call it. If the fielder does something stupid then safe him.

The third thing that Pete didn't specify is the F3 pulling quick. It is done for safety purposes and as long as it is close let it go.

All these things have no place at lower levels, they need to do what they are supposed to. Everything happens at slower speeds and they need to learn the proper methods.

[Umpire in Chief]

Neighborhood play I can agree to if there is no FPSR and the timing is there. The phantom tag gets a little trickier. I want outs as much as the next guy, and as I was once told by a much wiser umpire, "My call is always out. They have to convince me enough to make me change my mind and call them safe." But I've seen some absolutely awesome attempts to get under/around being tagged when the ball is there waiting, and cannot take that level of effort away from a guy who did something like that. If everything else is routine possibly, but I was also told, "Don't reward bad baseball" and not getting the tag in a routine situation is definately bad baseball.

With F3 coming off to quick, it happens sometimes if it starts to get noticeable, then I'll just tell him, "Just give me a millisecond more, I don't want either of us to look bad." And they are generally fine with that.

So I'll see your neighborhood play, phantom tag, and quick release and I'll raise you a situational strike.

With a 3-0 count on a borderline/close enough pitch what do you call? Now change it to a 3-1 count, same pitch, what do you call? I've heard some interesting discussion on this and want to see what you think?

For me, I always want to get the strike. So in either case I will get the strike. I've heard others who say 3-0 it has to a good pitch to get a strike. And 3-1 it has to be a bad pitch not to get a strike...

[BrianC14]

....The phantom tag gets a little trickier. I want outs as much as the next guy, and as I was once told by a much wiser umpire, "My call is always out. They have to convince me enough to make me change my mind and call them safe." ...

See, and here is where I have a problem with this sort of thing; both ethically and experiential (for the umpire).

I would have to ask this "must wiser umpire" which he thinks is worse:

Making a call ("giving a call") that never really happened, or CHANGING your call because you were somehow convinced otherwise. If you don't have the call on your own, then get some help - there's no shame in that. The concept of "I've got to get this out" is BS. The DEFENSE makes the out - the UMPIRE is there to confirm it.

To me, this is little different from a man who tells a "little white lie"; just one. But then he tells 17 to cover for the one that he originally told.

The outs will come. But why can't they just be called (safe OR out) as they happen? Why do some umpires feel the need / desire to inject their own selves into the game? Sure, we're all human, we all make mistakes, but these things are not mistakes.

[BrianC14]

....With a 3-0 count on a borderline/close enough pitch what do you call? Now change it to a 3-1 count, same pitch, what do you call? I've heard some interesting discussion on this and want to see what you think?

For me, I always want to get the strike. So in either case I will get the strike. I've heard others who say 3-0 it has to a good pitch to get a strike. And 3-1 it has to be a bad pitch not to get a strike...

I've heard some guys same similar things.

Then, out of the other side of their face, they brag about what a "consistent" strike zone they have.

For the love of all that is holy, I do not understand this. If it's a strike call the thing a strike! If it isn't, well, you know...

:rantoff:

[PeteBooth]

So I'll see your neighborhood play, phantom tag, and quick release and I'll raise you a situational strike.

With a 3-0 count on a borderline/close enough pitch what do you call? Now change it to a 3-1 count, same pitch, what do you call? I've heard some interesting discussion on this and want to see what you think?

For me, I always want to get the strike. So in either case I will get the strike. I've heard others who say 3-0 it has to a good pitch to get a strike. And 3-1 it has to be a bad pitch not to get a strike...

Warren I am ALL IN

Good question

In the beginning of my career, I umpired the way the game was umpired when I played, meaning:

For all practical purposes F1 did not even have to throw a pitch on 3-0 because it was going to be a strike unless the pitch was NOWHERE near the plate.

The 3-1 count was different, and as a player we trusted that F1 needed to hit the zone that the PU was calling all game long.

To summarize: back in the day a 3-0 count became 3-1. After 3-1 business as usual. It was accepted and we as players KNEW it.

Now fast forward to today.

Too many parents involved at an early stage. Also, NO pick-up games etc. meaning the game is much more organized then when I played. We were much more baseball savvy then the kids of today.

Therefore, I now have "changed my tune' with regards to the 3-0 pitch etc. UNLESS of course we have a blow out game which is altogether differrent.

In one particular instance I called a 3-0 pitch a strike that I would normally call a ball. The 3-1 pitch was right down Broadway so no problem but the 3-2 pitch was in the same spot as the 3-0 pitch that I just called a strike so the batter swung at it and K'd. The coach said something to me.

It was apparent that the coach and the player didn't get IT.

Therefore, today the 3-0 pitch gets the same zone as the pitch on 1-0 or 2-0, etc. because as mentioned it's the sign of the times we live in.

Now since I am ALL IN are you going to call?

Pete Booth

[PeteBooth]

See, and here is where I have a problem with this sort of thing; both ethically and experiential (for the umpire).

I would have to ask this "must wiser umpire" which he thinks is worse:

Making a call ("giving a call") that never really happened, or CHANGING your call because you were somehow convinced otherwise. If you don't have the call on your own, then get some help - there's no shame in that. The concept of "I've got to get this out" is BS. The DEFENSE makes the out - the UMPIRE is there to confirm it.

To me, this is little different from a man who tells a "little white lie"; just one. But then he tells 17 to cover for the one that he originally told.

The outs will come. But why can't they just be called (safe OR out) as they happen? Why do some umpires feel the need / desire to inject their own selves into the game? Sure, we're all human, we all make mistakes, but these things are not mistakes.

Brian the neighborhood / phantom tag play are part of the TRADITION of baseball which has gone downhill since the advent of the DH, lowering of the pitching mound etc.

I grew up with the neighborhood play / phantom tag play and thought nothing of it.

Also, t's the SAME for both teams so no one team is getting hosed.

IMO, the MAIN reason we do not see it as prevelant in the PRO game as much as we used to is because of SLO-MO Replay. There are all kinds of camera angles etc. so in today's game the umpires are less APT to give the neighborhood call as they once did. It still happens but to a lessor extent.

Also, we ALL have used the phantom tag scenario at one time or another ESPECIALLY if you worked SOLO.

When you work SOLO you do not actually see the tag out at second base on a steal attempt. So what do you have to go by?

You step out from behing the plate get the best angle you have and WATCH. If the ball beats the runner and the glove is where it should be = OUT UNLESS you want to call runners SAFE all game long.

Therefore, whether 1 man or 2 man IMO makes no difference. Also, this asking for help and getting the call right is way over hyped because the fact is we will NOT get every call right.

Pete Booth

[BrianC14]

Well Pete, we disagree.

And today is still Tuesday, and neither your nor I will lose any sleep over this.

You know, baseball used to have lots of traditions. Some good, some bad.

Any call I make is done with 100% integrity of what I'm seeing happen. 128 feet away on a steal of 2nd? I give it my best call. Yes, if it appears to me that the ball beat the runner, then I'm going to have an out. This is not a comparison for "close enough". If both teams are getting "hosed" as you say, then it seems to me that an accounting system would be needed to ensure that there are an equal number of calls against each team. That's a bit laborious, and IMO, can only lead to a bad situation (recalling the concept of many lies being used to cover one).

So getting the call right is overhyped, is it? If that's the case, why have umpires at all? That's a slippery slope, IMO. And there is a big difference in the concept of getting a call right and asking for help.

But, like I said, we disagree. The sun will come up tomorrow. If it doesn't it's going to be darn cold. :P

Edited December 16, 2008 by BrianC14

[LMSANS]

I hate this discussion because I come across as a harda$$. Really I'm not, but I call what I see. I am not smart enough to send messages or change the rules to the situation. It is not in my nature to ignore the rules.

As an analogy, I also work football. On Sundays we work 3 - 5 youth games. Usually one of those games is 6 - 7 year olds. I (and my crew agrees) do the clock for these games because some people think I am too strict with the little guys. I also don't high-five them and stuff like that, which a lot of guys do.

I do understand situational officiating. When working solo there are probably a few "in the neighborhood" calls, and phantom tags. But it's not because I wanted the out, it is because that is the information I had.

I'm liking what Brian said.

[PeteBooth]

When working solo there are probably a few "in the neighborhood" calls, and phantom tags. But it's not because I wanted the out, it is because that is the information I had.

I'm liking what Brian said.

What's the difference between working SOLO or 2 person?

Most calls are based upon the information at hand.

Give me your call on this play

R1 1 out

Ground ball to the right side of F6 who fields the ball and steps on second base and throws to first to complete the DP.

R1 is only a third of the way towards second base, and F6 in stepping on second base does not actually TOUCH it but is within 1-2 inches of the bag.

EVERYONE in the park EXPECTS 2 outs on this play. Heck even R1 thinks he is out.

If I "catch your drift" you have a SAFE call at second base and an out at first base. Problem is the defense is half-way to the dugout by now.

I realize we all have our own opinions and philosophies about umpiring but the fact is you will not ALWAYS see everything but a CALL has to be made. We make calls based upon the tradition of baseball and the "evidence" presented to us.

here's another one.

BR swings and the ball dribbles out in front of the plate area for an easy out by the defense, HOWEVER BR is in OBVIOUS pain but you were blocked out etc and didn't SEE the ball hit the BR after he swung and your partner didn't see it either,

The EVIDENCE tells you that we have a FOUL ball but you didn't actually SEE it so again according to your philsophy since you didn't actually SEE it, you let the out call stand.

It makes for good discussion

Pete Booth

[catoblue]

I don't buy into a situational strike zone - having coached and umpired, there is nothing that ticks me off more during a game than an umpire with a moving strike zone. I always bit my tongue and tell batters something along the lines of "good at-bat", or "good cut's out there" or pitchers things like "get it up just a little more" or "you just missed" - all the while seething inside because the umpire isn't being consistent with his strike zone.

The only neighborhood or phantom tag you'd see me call would be if what I could see vrom my angle "Looked" as though the bag were touched or the runner was tagged. I wouldn't call either if I saw that the touch or tag didn't happen.

The FYC, on the other hand, in rare situations where the players are mature and get it, and they would face a fine for an EJ, I might consider it to make an attitude adjustment without costing the guy any money.

[jim knight]

Good subject... I fall on the side of calling what I see, always. If I do not see the whole play I work with what information I have. I work hard to improve so I am in the proper position to make the call just like it happened.

We should all take pride in our zones and do not ever take into account the situation or count.

[BrianC14]

First of all, I don't bring a ruler onto the field with me.

If 1 or 2 inches off the bag is acceptable, then why not 3, or 4 or 8? He had 'im by a mile anyway, right? What player wouldn't begin taking advantage of that? As a former player, I know that I'd be tempted to get a bit more off the bag, just in case the B/R is fast. What the heck, right - ol' Blue's going to give me the call because R1 is a fat slob jogging his way to 2B.

So what happens when the teams change sides? Hey, now their F4 is only a few inches off, since I gave the other team that call, it's only right to give one to the other team.

This is the slippery slope I'm talking about. Where does it end?

Here's my experience with this sort of thing. In 1995, (yeah, 13 years ago) I stuffed a call up a team's arse. Thought they had it coming, since the head coach was griping about the zone in Game 1. Then Game 2 comes around, and now I"m on the bases, and they're griping - being chippy. I gave them an FYC on a play at first base; it wasn't terribly close, not what I'd call a banger... but my timing was way too quick, but I didn't care (ethics, anyone?) - their runner was out - the ball beat him (and yes, it did beat him, so I made the call 'Out', since "everyone" knew they had him). Problem was, as F3 steps off the bag, he's bobbling the ball. But it's my call, and he's out. I don't blame them for coming unglued, I would have, too - it was pretty clear what I had done. So my FYC just made things even worse.

I've replayed that play over and over since 1995, I kid you not. It sickens me every time I think about it. Well that's my motivation. These days, if a runner is out, he's out. If he's safe, he's safe. I don't take into consideration what time it is, whether Team A is ahead by 19 runs, or whether I don't like the color of their uniforms, or whether or not some kid is 6,000% less talented than the All Star of the team who's dating the head cheerleader and who has a guaranteed full boat ride to USC. I don't take that into consideration, because doing so tilts the field.

I'll say it again: I do not agree with, nor do I like 'neighborhood calls'. Any umpire that uses them, that's his business. But I do not.

Oh, and I don't work games solo. That's another topic, anyway. It shouldn't matter if your crew is 2 or 6. You see a tag? Call him out.

As for me, all I'll have left when I'm done working games is the integrity that I brought into it.

/end of rant

Edited December 16, 2008 by BrianC14

[LMSANS]

1 person couldn't help it.

Most calls are based upon the information at hand.

Actually I would hope All calls are made based on the information at hand.

Give me your call on this play

R1 1 out

Ground ball to the right side of F6 who fields the ball and steps on second base and throws to first to complete the DP.

R1 is only a third of the way towards second base, and F6 in stepping on second base does not actually TOUCH it but is within 1-2 inches of the bag.

EVERYONE in the park EXPECTS 2 outs on this play. Heck even R1 thinks he is out.

If I "catch your drift" you have a SAFE call at second base and an out at first base. Problem is the defense is half-way to the dugout by now.

Been there, done that. Took the heat, but I'm very comfortable with my call. No EJ.

I realize we all have our own opinions and philosophies about umpiring but the fact is you will not ALWAYS see everything but a CALL has to be made. We make calls based upon the tradition of baseball and the "evidence" presented to us.

I'm not sure of your point here.

here's another one.

BR swings and the ball dribbles out in front of the plate area for an easy out by the defense, HOWEVER BR is in OBVIOUS pain but you were blocked out etc and didn't SEE the ball hit the BR after he swung and your partner didn't see it either,

The EVIDENCE tells you that we have a FOUL ball but you didn't actually SEE it so again according to your philsophy since you didn't actually SEE it, you let the out call stand.

I actually had this happen when I was working a JV game by myself in my second year. I wouldn't say in that case it was OBVIOUS. But the BR stopped pretty quickly. So did the ball because the sand (gotta love that Jersey Shore topsoil) was soft in front of the plate. I let the play stand (BR tagged by F2.) Today I am more experienced and may be more aware of the additional evidence that is sometimes available. Using my increasingly faulty memory, it probably could/should have been called foul

It makes for good discussion

Pete Booth

Agreed!

:cheers:

[Majordave]

All these great responses. You guys have been at it all day and where have I been? I found some great soldier blogs on Afghanistan and Iraq and have been reading about the daily life of grunts and ex-grunts that are now highly paid contractors in "the sandbox" and "the 'ghan".

Anyway, I don't know where to begin with the running commentary.

Neighborhood play-try to call what I see but I have allowed it in college games and legion games and some very, very good summer travel teams of 17 yo and up age. Only at second base on DP's which are out by 8-10 steps.

Note: the ''big dogs" from my college association and the trainers at the college clinics and the pro umpires I know tell me that when a game is on TV you must call it as it actually is. The TV slo-mo replay makes you look like an a-hole and incompetent. Because, as we know, ALL TV announcers just don't get the game, even if they played it.

Phantom tag-same thing. Usually at second only but sometimes at third when the runner is out by a country mile AND the game is out of hand. Kind of like I do my FYC. Game out of hand and winning team is stealing and bunting. I call everybody out on winners when I am on bases and almost every pitch that is remotely close a strike when I am on the plate. Games must be 14 or more run differential and summer stuff or super high school playing podunk high school team to invoke that methodology and rule. Sometimes I think the winning coach does that crap just to get some outs and get it over with. I have never heard anything from a coach in that situation. Only parents and stupid ASSistant coaches (usually daddies pretending to be coaches) complain.

Sorry I am not replying to some of the great and witty reparte' you guys have been sharing all day.

Again, great thread.

Alibi commentary as to working solo: I never advocated it and had avoided it up until this fall. I volunteered to work a D-1 homecoming weekend alumni versus active players game at Eastern Kentucky U. Nobody else showed up. I got an assistant coach to call at first. The first hit and he did not rotate into the infield for the potential play at second even though I told him to before the game. I always come out in front of the plate on all hits with no runners on and I jogged a little past the mound when I saw he wasn't rotating in. No play so I figured it was all well. Told him what to do between innings and he missed it again. Again, no play at second so all is well but I decided I would have to take all plays in the infield at second and third and probably throwback to first and in case of overthrows get back home too.

The alums had several former pro players and several current high school baseball coaches in their ranks so they were actually winning until the 7th or 8th when their pitching ran out. I ran my ass off but I swear I did not miss a play. It was fun but I would not recommend doing it in a game that mattered at any level, even on a 60' diamond. Good thing I was in shape.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Majordave
Telling a war story on working solo.

[Umpire in Chief]

Now since I am ALL IN are you going to call?

Pete Booth

I call.

These have all been good posts, so it will be a split pot.

Not only have they been great post, but you all have hit this hot topic with professionalisim.

[POLOGREEN]

Neighborhood Play...see Mr. Robinson if you want me to call that and Phantom Tag.....go to Broadway and watch Phantom I want to see the tag!

[MCLEOD36]

I look at it like this, if I see it, I will call it that way. In a neighborhood play, I might give on a couple of inches ie sand in my eyes or near the bag. But on the phantom tag, that is where communication comes in, if I can and have help, I can look at my partner and give him the look of (OH SH*#, CAN SEE HELP), if not typically call him out rational is baseline diving out of or sometimes can see that runners distane...

[POLOGREEN]

I will call the play (at 2nd or any base) as I see it...if the fielder touches the bag I have an out....if he does NOT touch the bag SAFE.

On a tag I don't care how much the fielder "SELLS IT" if he comes up shows the ball and has NOT tagged the runner...I have SAFE. The only way I have an out is if I SEE the tag.

As far as balls and strikes 3-0 is the same as any pitch...I am paid to do the best job and that what I'll do to the best of my ability.

[PeteBooth]

First of all, I don't bring a ruler onto the field with me.

If 1 or 2 inches off the bag is acceptable, then why not 3, or 4 or 8?

Becasue 3 or 4 or 8 inches is NOT the definition of "in the vicinity" as defined by the authorities.

I gave them an FYC on a play at first base;

Brian I NEVER said that I would give an FYC on the bases which IMO is why you had a bad experience using it. AN FYC is STRICTLY used by the PU and therefore avoids the problem you encountered. I agree 100% DO NOT USE an FYC on the bases because there is NO benefit to it as opposed to a strike 3 call on a pitch 6 inches outside.

Players who get IT understand what you did at the plate but it's an altogether different scenario concernng a play on the bases.

I'll say it again: I do not agree with, nor do I like 'neighborhood calls'. Any umpire that uses them, that's his business. But I do not.

Based upon your post IMO the reason you do not like etc. is because as mentioned above you used the FYC call incorrectly and do not fuly understand what is meant by "in the vicinity" as evidenced by using 4-8 inches etc. in your response.

Brian as always - Great Discussion

Pete Booth

[BrianC14]

Pete:

It seems to me you're attempting to justify the FYC and the neighborhood call.

In my situation, I made an incorrect call that was intended (my mind was made up that he was going to be out ahead of the call) to "F" the team.

From an integrity standpoint, there is 0% difference between a called K3 that is 6" off the plate and what I did on that base. Both calls are wrong. A pitch 6" off the plate is not a strike, thus, the call is wrong.

A throw to F3 that is bobbled and calling BR out is similarly wrong.

Either way, both of those calls are intended to "F" the other team.

Like I said, this is a slippery slope. This whole system of FYC and neighborhood calls seem to require an accounting system; and I think that there's no place for that sort of thing. This is precisely why I think that FYC's especially have no place in the game. This is an umpire making a concious decision to inject himself into the game - be it that he's angry at a player, a coach, the weather, doesn't matter. That umpire has decided that he will "show" who's boss, and in doing so, purposefully makes a call that is incorrect. I just can't get my head around that sort of thinking. But like I said, if an umpire decides he's going to do it, he has to live with it.

Edited December 17, 2008 by BrianC14

[PeteBooth]

Pete:

It seems to me you're attempting to justify the FYC and the neighborhood call.

From an integrity standpoint, there is 0% difference between a called K3 that is 6" off the plate and what I did on that base. Both calls are wrong. A pitch 6" off the plate is not a strike, thus, the call is wrong.

A throw to F3 that is bobbled and calling BR out is similarly wrong.

Either way, both of those calls are intended to "F" the other team.

Brian I am not trying to justify the FYC / neighborhood call but explaining what they are and it's use.

Also, there is a difference between a called K3 that is 6" off the plate and what you did on that base.

From your response it's apparent that you do not understand exactly what an FYC call is otherwise you would not have said

a called K3 that is 6" off the plate and what I did on that base is no different.

When a player gets IT they understand why you called a pitch 6 inches outisde a strike. However, that same player does NOT understand why you "hosed" him when he was CLEARLY safe on a play at the bases. That's the difference which was told to me by solid umpires.

The aforementioned is my main point. Until you fully understand "something" it's difficult to grasp and use.

As far as the neighborhood play again IMO, a BIG difference between 4 inches or greater vs. an inch or 2. Many of the experts which include Evans/ Roder refer to the term "in the vicinity of"

Also, you do not see the neighborhood play called as much in the PROS these days not because it's not accepted but because of SLO-MO Replays.

I am not trying to Convince/change your mind, etc. but to explain what these terms mean so that others can judge for themselves.

Pete Booth

[BrianC14]

I know full well what FYCs are and why they're used, and thanks, but I don't need it explained to me.

As I've said, I don't agree with them, and I don't use them. Personally, I think it shows a lack of integrity for an umpire to purposefully call an obvious ball a strike. By doing so, he's injecting himself into the game where he doesn't belong, and when I've seen it occur (very rare), it's usually because the umpire let his emotions get the better of him.

I still maintain that the FYC and my call at 1B are the same sort of thing - it's all in the intent of the umpire that is the purpose / reason for making that call.

Like you, I"m not trying to change anyone's mind, just tossing my $0.02 in.

As far as the neighborhood play again IMO, a BIG difference between 4 inches or greater vs. an inch or 2. Many of the experts which include Evans/ Roder refer to the term "in the vicinity of"

Do me a favor, would you? Point out the page number in the J/R manual where they discuss "in the vicinity"...? I'm looking for it but haven't been able to find it. Thanks.

Edited December 17, 2008 by BrianC14

[jim knight]

Wow... I really have to dissagree, PETE / the calls we are talking about in this post IMO have no place in baseball at any level.

I sugest it is not slo-mo replay that has changed the way the MLB guys call the game as much as it is working to get proper position and improved timming... and simply put again if a player misses a base or a pitch is not in the zone... the situation should never have an effect on the call.... call what you see, work hard to be respected by your work.

I know it is tempting to change things up in a blowout but it is the wrong thing to do.... I am sure I am not the only person to be involved in dramatic come backs in big games.

I know it is tempting to teach some player or coach a lesson by blowing a call so it goes against them... it is simply the wrong thing to do.

[PeteBooth]

Wow... I really have to dissagree, PETE / the calls we are talking about in this post IMO have no place in baseball at any level.

I know it is tempting to teach some player or coach a lesson by blowing a call so it goes against them... it is simply the wrong thing to do.

Jim I have no problem with your point of view but to say

the calls we are talking about in this post IMO have no place in baseball at any level and

it is simply the wrong thing to do

is STRICTLY your view.

IMO, the FYC will almost ALWAYS have it's place in baseball although not as prevelant as when I played.

I have used the FYC and actually had players thank me for using it.

In the leagues where the FYC is most effective is those leagues that are disciplined properly. By disciplined properly I mean an automatic one game suspension and a fine. Also, it's cummulative meaning

If a player got tossed a second time, he sat out 2 games and the fine also increased. If memory serves this one league had a $25.00 fine for first offense then a $50.00 fine.

Also, IMO what's getting lost is this

The FYC is not something an umpire is going to do game after game. It's a once / twice a year "thing" that's it.

The neighborhood play / phantom tag play have been around for a Looong time. Also, it's the same type call for BOTH teams so the playing field is even.

In Summary: I am not trying to convince ANYBODY to change their philosphy about umpiring BUT

at least acknowledge it and do not use words such as unethical / cheater etc. to describe an umpire who has used the FYC or calls the neighborhood play etc.

There have been some really good umpires who have used it namely Jon Bible who is a top rated official in the NCAA and who had his own column in referee magazine.

Also, if you think SLO-MO Replay or Replay in General has not changed PRO umpires approach to umpiring these days - Think again.

Pete Booth