Its Where it Crosses The Plate !

[Mudder]

I know this is an old old argument thats been discussed at length on these boards, but I still find myself struggling at times with this concept.

I find myself sometimes getting grief on those breaking pitches that cross the plate way up (at the letters say, where this high of a pitch would never be called a strike otherwise), but because the catcher catches it just above the knee and the pitcher "hits his spot" people are expecting this to be a strike. Not a lot but it does happen

I've had seasoned umpires tell me in theory its where it crosses the plate, but the reality is if you want to become a good balls and strikes umpire, and you want to succeed at the higher levels, you have to learn how to strike this pitch, and reward the pitcher for hitting his spot.

As i say it does not happen a lot, but sometimes I get grief on those breaking pitches where the catcher does not even have to move his glove, but it crossed the plate way up. In my mind I'm thinking "whats everyone complaining about that was way up. Can I be way off base that I should be striking that?

What advice would you give here? Please don't say "well maybe in your area thats where they normally call strikes". Its not, this is 16/17 + yr old elite level baseball that generally at best the top of the zone is a couple of inches above the belt

[Thunderheads]

Well, ...it IS WHERE IT CROSSES THE PLATE.

And, ...

If you're getting grief ..... then 1+1 = 2.

I've had seasoned umpires tell me in theory its where it crosses the plate, but the reality is if you want to become a good balls and strikes umpire, and you want to succeed at the higher levels, you have to learn how to strike this pitch, and reward the pitcher for hitting his spot.

If it crosses the plate high ....it's high, regardless of where it's caught. That is the reality

[cuban]

I know the exact pitch you are talking about. I call it the "High School Breaking Ball". It's funny because in HS they want the pitch to be a strike but in college they want it to be a ball. Your right it's high.

[noumpere]

I know this is an old old argument thats been discussed at length on these boards, but I still find myself struggling at times with this concept.

I find myself sometimes getting grief on those breaking pitches that cross the plate way up (at the letters say, where this high of a pitch would never be called a strike otherwise), but because the catcher catches it just above the knee

well first I doubt that a pitch can cross at the letters and be caught at the knees unless its something like an ephus pitch. But it can be letters to belt or belt to below the knees (to get the opposite side of the coin). And its tough to get even in pro ball. Sometimes making an arc with your arm as an explanation to the coach will quite him down. Othertimes they just like to b****. lol. But you do need to be sure your following the ball all the way and not seeing it high then not seeing it at all then seeing it caught and assuming it was hight through the zone. (And I say 'you" not as an admonishment but as a reminder to myself)

[umpire_scott]

I know this is an old old argument thats been discussed at length on these boards, but I still find myself struggling at times with this concept.

I find myself sometimes getting grief on those breaking pitches that cross the plate way up (at the letters say, where this high of a pitch would never be called a strike otherwise), but because the catcher catches it just above the knee

well first I doubt that a pitch can cross at the letters and be caught at the knees unless its something like an ephus pitch. But it can be letters to belt or belt to below the knees (to get the opposite side of the coin). And its tough to get even in pro ball. Sometimes making an arc with your arm as an explanation to the coach will quite him down. Othertimes they just like to b****. lol. But you do need to be sure your following the ball all the way and not seeing it high then not seeing it at all then seeing it caught and assuming it was hight through the zone. (And I say 'you" not as an admonishment but as a reminder to myself)

I agree with this. I have not seen video analysis to prove it, the plate is a small area. I think what a lot of PU's are seeing is the entire break. Which means a lot of that break occurs prior to getting to the plate. I try to see the ball at the front of the zone and make my determination from there. And some balls obviously have more break through the zone than others. But for a strong breaking ball to be called a strike it generally has to hit belt or below when it gets to the catcher. If it's above the belt, even a ball above, then I assume it came through the zone a little high. I seldom have arguments with my strikes up in the zone on breaking balls. Just see where it ends up, consider the amount of break, and make your call. Be consistent with this, and don't let fan/coach reaction intimidate you, and you'll end up being consistent. What will get you into way more trouble is thinking that you might have not been calling it right and changing to please the fans/coaches. I never care when I hear, "He's not giving you the corner", or "he's got a low/high zone". Even though they are wrong, if they think they know my zone, then I'm doing my job.

[UMP45]

I don't think the plate is that small. 23" is a good size plate!

[carolinablue]

I will usually let F2 know he's got to get it down. A good pitcher will make the adjustment.

[The Adjudicator]

Think strikes, be consistent. I reward a curve that hits the mitt in the middle if the zone, I don't care what the flight pattern was

[Jocko]

I don't think the plate is that small. 23" is a good size plate!

23" is a platter!

[catsbackr]

I don't think the plate is that small. 23" is a good size plate!

23" is a platter!

23" is a ball inside and a ball outside. 23" is a good zone.

[Thunderheads]

I don't think the plate is that small. 23" is a good size plate!

23" is a platter!

23" is a ball inside and a ball outside. 23" is a good zone.

I was about to concur, ... but over-thunk it .... thanks for snapping me back! :D

[RichMSN]

Think strikes, be consistent. I reward a curve that hits the mitt in the middle if the zone, I don't care what the flight pattern was

In higher level baseball, that would be a disaster.

[MPLSMatt]

Yep, I agree with Rich on this. Don't forget that the OC is usually going to be at 1B or 3B and once you get to HS Varsity or better, he's going to understand that it doesn't matter where the catcher catches it. If he sees a ball at the letters when it crosses the plate and you are routinely striking it, I think you'll have issues.

[scrounge]

Think strikes, be consistent. I reward a curve that hits the mitt in the middle if the zone, I don't care what the flight pattern was

If by "middle of the zone" you mean mid-thigh, I'm inclined to agree, simply because there's virtually no way that - short of a slo-pitch softball-style arcing pitch - a curve ball can cross at the letters and then end up two feet lower three feet back at the catcher's mitt. But if the ball is caught at the belt? Could very well have crossed high. That will be a ball at higher levels. Conversely, the curve caught a bit below the knees will be a strike. They'll adjust and understand.

[MPLSMatt]

As an aside, I used to have a much tougher time with my breaking pitches until I went to a clinic this Spring and I was told I wasn't tracking the ball to the glove. Just like someone else said here, because a ball was high just in front of the plate, I was assuming it was high because I didn't track the ball, I just connected the dots from where I stopped following to the catchers glove. If you are struggling with the breaking pitch, make sure you are tracking it the whole way. Not to say pitches can't "break late" like you are talking about (they often do) but looking back, I'm sure I was missing pitches because of my tunnel vision.

[MidAmUmp]

If you are wanting to move up...

While the "zone" is defined as the area over home plate, you must take into consideration how the catcher catches the pitch.

If you call a strike on a pitch that crosses the zone at the top of the knees and the catcher catches it in the dirt, you're going to hear from the dugouts. So the oposite would hold true too. If a ball crosses at bottom of the letters/belly button area and is caught below the belt and you ball it, you're going to hear from the dugouts on that, too.

Let everything happen that can happen before you make up your mind. See where the pitch crosses the plate, see how the catcher catches it - did he turn the glove over, did he have to reach outside his frame, did he have to reach up for it???

You don't buy a car soley on looks, but you also don't buy a good running car that is rusty and dented either. Working the plate is the same way.