illegal bat

[Jocko]

LL rules. What markings must be on the bat to be legal?

[BT_Blue]

."approved for little league play"

USSSA BPF 1.15 or 1.2

It will also have what looks like a thumb print with the above.

If it doesn't have the above "thumb print" if the barrel is aluminum or alloy it should be legal as well. Composite needs the above marks.

[Jocko]

My nephew in Texas plays LL and last night he hit a bomb to straightaway cf. Tonight coaches asked to have bat checked and ump said illegal. Dad wants to know, and since I dont do LL, I have no idea.

[BT_Blue]

Unfortunately I hear this a bunch.sadly it depends on the umpire and how he interprets the rule. Its not like high school or college where we ho through training.

[Jocko]

Or get paid, so they wind up with whatever umpires they can find.

[Rich Ives]

LL MAJORS/MINORS: Must be marked with the BPF rating which must be 1.15 or less. Composite barrel bats mus be on the approved list at www.littleleague.org

LL JUNIOR: COMPOSITE bats must be marked BBCOR.

LL SENIOR AND BIG LEAGUE: ALL bats must be marked BBCOR.

NO LL Bat at any level has to have "LL Approved" on it.

[Rich Ives]

."approved for little league play"

USSSA BPF 1.15 or 1.2

It will also have what looks like a thumb print with the above.

If it doesn't have the above "thumb print" if the barrel is aluminum or alloy it should be legal as well. Composite needs the above marks.

This isn't the LL rule. I posted the LL rule separately.

[Jocko]

LL MAJORS/MINORS: Must be marked with the BPF rating which must be 1.15 or less. Composite barrel bats mus be on the approved list at www.littleleague.org

LL JUNIOR: COMPOSITE bats must be marked BBCOR.

LL SENIOR AND BIG LEAGUE: ALL bats must be marked BBCOR.

NO LL Bat at any level has to have "LL Approved" on it.

Thanks Rich. I knew you'd have it. According to my father, the umps are checking bats pregame (???) and one game the bat is approved, next game it's illegal. Being an '09 bat, it's BESR, which makes it illegal in all rules (right?). My nephew hit a bomb with it and after about a 45 minute delay while calls were made by TD or whoever, bat is illegal, batter is out, but solo HR stands???? what ?!? It was the game winning run. Thoughts?

[kylejt]

It would be great to know the level of play.

Seeing BESR, I'm going to guess Juniors, or maybe Senior, since BESR was used to rate 2 5/8" bats.

If it was Juniors, I'll bet it was a composite bat, that wasn't BBCOR, since there are no restrictions on metal bats in Juniors (this year).

Bats have to be challenged before the next AB, to get an out, and you can't go more retroactive than the last AB. This year they instituted a new penalty: The batter is out, the hit, if any, is nullified, and you lose an adult base coach for the game. On the second infraction of the game, the same penalties apply, plus the manager is ejected.

So how can the batter be out, but his dinger count? That makes zero sense.

When I check bats before a game, I'm only looking for structural integrity. The composite bats lists are too long to fumble through for every stick in the rack. It's up to the managers to make sure they're legal, and the other managers to challenge them.

[Rich Ives]

What Kyle said.

BTW, before the composite situation hit the only penalty in LL was removal of the illegal bat. Now it's rether onerous, but LL is tired of parents trying to subvert the rules, or whine their way into an exemption because Jrs $250 bat was legal last year.

[BT_Blue]

Works for me. I haven't done little league in years so I'm not completely up on the rules.

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What Kyle said.<br />

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BTW, before the composite situation hit the only penalty in LL was removal of the illegal bat. Now it&#39;s rether onerous, but LL is tired of parents trying to subvert the rules, or whine their way into an exemption because Jrs &#036;250 bat was legal last year.<br />

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I started working at a local athletic supply company right around the start of the baseball season and this is the number one lament from parents. Especially high school age, but lower as well. What is sad is that they don't make these changes "suddenly". For the most part these are years in the making. So I don't have much sympathy for people that don't pay attention when they are told something.

[JHSump]

You're watching your favorite TV show, but here comes a commercial break...

<Image appears of two parents at a sporting goods store, frowning while looking at high priced metal bats. Junior stands nearby with a hopeful look on his face.>

Voice of Morgan Freeman: "Do you spend hundreds...even thousands...on...bats??"

<Image of JHSump, giving a stump speech...>

JHSump: "I say bring back wood bats! For all leagues. Let's end the technological arms race! Let's end the dugout visits by umpires looking for weapons of mass destruction!"

Morgan Freeman: "Sure wood bats break, but they cost less than metal and composite bats. With proper use --- keep the label up! --- you can get through a season with just a few of them. The total cost is about the same as for a new metal bat. And maybe there won't be any WMDs." (Fine print on the TV screen --- "Source: Congressional Budget Office")

JHSump: "...Even metal and composite bats wear out, and need to be replaced! Or, they need to be replaced just to keep up with the arms race! Let's stop this madness! If I'm elected, I'll outlaw metal and composite bats. Let's go back to the way baseball was meant to be played."

<Video of parents listening to the speech, chanting...>

"Wood bats, wood bats, wood bats,..."

<Fade to still of JHSump, in his umpire uniform>

"I'm JHSump, and I approved this message."

[Jocko]

You're watching your favorite TV show, but here comes a commercial break...

<Image appears of two parents at a sporting goods store, frowning while looking at high priced metal bats. Junior stands nearby with a hopeful look on his face.>

Voice of Morgan Freeman: "Do you spend hundreds...even thousands...on...bats??"

<Image of JHSump, giving a stump speech...>

JHSump: "I say bring back wood bats! For all leagues. Let's end the technological arms race! Let's end the dugout visits by umpires looking for weapons of mass destruction!"

Morgan Freeman: "Sure wood bats break, but they cost less than metal and composite bats. With proper use --- keep the label up! --- you can get through a season with just a few of them. The total cost is about the same as for a new metal bat. And maybe there won't be any WMDs." (Fine print on the TV screen --- "Source: Congressional Budget Office")

JHSump: "...Even metal and composite bats wear out, and need to be replaced! Or, they need to be replaced just to keep up with the arms race! Let's stop this madness! If I'm elected, I'll outlaw metal and composite bats. Let's go back to the way baseball was meant to be played."

<Video of parents listening to the speech, chanting...>

"Wood bats, wood bats, wood bats,..."

<Fade to still of JHSump, in his umpire uniform>

"I'm JHSump, and I approved this message."

Got my vote!

[Rich Ives]

Just to clarify one thing - a BESR METAL bat is legal in LL Junious but not in any other division.

[mstaylor]

If the bat isn't composite then a BESR bat is legal in Jrs. Srs all have to be BBCOR. Have the dad go to the link above and it has a list of all LL bats that are legal. There is no list for Jrs or Srs because it is obvious. Have him print off the section that says all BESR noncomposite bats are legal in Jrs. The only other caveat not mentioned is no 60ft composite approved for majors is legal in Jrs. By saying that all composites have to be BBCOR covers that but the question still gets asked. If the bat is a half and half, it is determined by the barrel.

[Jocko]

my nephew is 12. Whatever division that puts him in.

[kylejt]

Most likely Majors. But it could be Juniors, as they take 12 year olds.

BESR bats were only 2 5/8" in diameter, so that's too big for Majors.

If he a dinger with that bat, and a Majors game, man, are those umpires bad for not spotting it. Take the run off the board, call him out, AND remove an adult base coach, too.

If it were a Juniors game, and it was a metal bat, the umpires goofed, and the manager should have protested..

Trout, give us the proper division (majors/Juniors), and the bat size and composition, and I'll give you the proper ruling.

It it were a Juniors game, and a composite barreled bat, then the umpires got it right.

Lots of variables, but no wiggle room an any sort of interpretation.

[Jocko]

I'll try to get details from Dad, but he probably doesn't know.

[Jimurray]

They have the bat. Tell us what markings are on the bat. We can conjecture from there. It would help if they knew if he was a Major or Junior Allstar.

[Jocko]

Ok. It's an 07 TPX Catalyst. Dad isn't sure if juniors or majors. there are a few 11 yo's on the team.

[kylejt]

Yeah, if he has 11s on his team, that's Majors.

Using a BESR rated bat, (they're all 2 5/8" in diameter, and -3 in weight differential) will get your hit nullified, you batter called out, and one adult base coach removed from a Majors game.

i.e. that's an illegal shillelagh.

If Dad's not sure if it's Majors or Juniors, perhaps he's not too sure about this being Little League.

[Jocko]

I'm calling AARP on you! He's positive it's LL. He hates it almost as much as...... Nevermind. :)

[mjr_2013]

I hate all this bat BS.

Why is it so hard for all baseball rule sets to just come out and say: "Effective in 2014, all bats made of any material other than a form of wood are illegal."

They are so stubborn. "This metal is ok, but this one isn't, and this one is only ok if it is on this list, but it doesn't matter anyway because odds are that the volunteer ump behind the plate will have no clue wtf you're talking about if you ask him to check."

[mjr_2013]

Majors v. Juniors is easier to tell than any other comparison I've ever seen between two close age groups.

Do they lead off?

YES = Juniors

NO = Majors

Juniors is 14U and Majors is 12U BTW so it's Majors. ;)

[kylejt]

Why is it so hard for all baseball rule sets to just come out and say: "Effective in 2014, all bats made of any material other than a form of wood are illegal."

Easy answer to that.

Wood bats are heavy.

Heavy bats don't get as many hits.

Kids like to hit.

Kids that don't hit go play soccer.

Any questions?

p.s. bat rules in LL really aren't that tough to understand.

p.p.s. 12 year olds are allowed to play Juniors, thus my followup question.