Batting Out of Turn

[Mudder]

Had a tournament game this past weekend. The coach of the team at bat (who was leading) approaches me and says "hey ump we just bat out of order". I was a little shocked and thought in my head, the offensive coach is complaining of batting out of turn?

I say to him, coach usually this is an appeal by the defensive team. He replies, "Ya I know but it was an honest mistake, and I'm just telling you". They already had 2 out and the batter who just batted out of turn just got on 1B with a single. The batter on deck was supposed to hit, so if I enforce the BOO, he's out inning over.

I respond to the coach, if the other coach says something before the next pitch I'll address it, if not we play on.

Other team's coach says nothing, game goes on and the team that committed the BOO goes on to score 3 more runs that inning with the 2 out and eventually won the game.

I was fairly sure I did the right thing, but for the remainder of the game I'm thinking what if the defensive coach finds out later I knew of the BOO, but did nothing about it, can he protest the game?

My question is by rule do I need to enforce the BOO regardless of which team brings it up, or is only a defensive appeal?

[JaxRolo]

You did the right thing. BOO is an appeal from the defense. So you say nothing.

[UmpJM]

Mudder,

You did fine - the defense must appeal in order for the BOO penalty to be enforced.

JM

[semper_fi_72]

Had a tournament game this past weekend. The coach of the team at bat (who was leading) approaches me and says "hey ump we just bat out of order". I was a little shocked and thought in my head, the offensive coach is complaining of batting out of turn?

I say to him, coach usually this is an appeal by the defensive team. He replies, "Ya I know but it was an honest mistake, and I'm just telling you". They already had 2 out and the batter who just batted out of turn just got on 1B with a single. The batter on deck was supposed to hit, so if I enforce the BOO, he's out inning over.

I respond to the coach, if the other coach says something before the next pitch I'll address it, if not we play on.

Other team's coach says nothing, game goes on and the team that committed the BOO goes on to score 3 more runs that inning with the 2 out and eventually won the game.

I was fairly sure I did the right thing, but for the remainder of the game I'm thinking what if the defensive coach finds out later I knew of the BOO, but did nothing about it, can he protest the game?

My question is by rule do I need to enforce the BOO regardless of which team brings it up, or is only a defensive appeal?

YES

You were advised of the BOO you enforce it, if it can still be enforced.

Yes it is a Defensive Appeal but you now know a BOO Violation has occurred and I believe it needs to be honestly addressed.

I feel the OC is telling you for a reason.

[SoCal Lurker]

Had a tournament game this past weekend. The coach of the team at bat (who was leading) approaches me and says "hey ump we just bat out of order". I was a little shocked and thought in my head, the offensive coach is complaining of batting out of turn?

I say to him, coach usually this is an appeal by the defensive team. He replies, "Ya I know but it was an honest mistake, and I'm just telling you". They already had 2 out and the batter who just batted out of turn just got on 1B with a single. The batter on deck was supposed to hit, so if I enforce the BOO, he's out inning over.

I respond to the coach, if the other coach says something before the next pitch I'll address it, if not we play on.

Other team's coach says nothing, game goes on and the team that committed the BOO goes on to score 3 more runs that inning with the 2 out and eventually won the game.

I was fairly sure I did the right thing, but for the remainder of the game I'm thinking what if the defensive coach finds out later I knew of the BOO, but did nothing about it, can he protest the game?

My question is by rule do I need to enforce the BOO regardless of which team brings it up, or is only a defensive appeal?

Rule reads:

6.07 BATTING OUT OF TURN.

(a) A batter shall be called out, on appeal, when he fails to bat in his proper turn, and

another batter completes a time at bat in his place.

So I don't see how you could have done anything wrong. (Nor do I see how there could be a protest -- what exception would permit the protest if it wasn't raised before the next pitch.)

-SCL

(aka daddy-coach, so take with a grain of salt . . .)

[Rich Ives]

Just to clarify things:

The offense CAN notice it and send the correct batter to the plate (assuming the count) IF it happens before the improper batter completes the AB.

After the AB is completed only the defense can appeal it - before the text pitch (to either team) or play.

[UmpJM]

YES

You were advised of the BOO you enforce it, if it can still be enforced.

Yes it is a Defensive Appeal but you now know a BOO Violation has occurred and I believe it needs to be honestly addressed.

I feel the OC is telling you for a reason.

semper_fi,

Gotta disagree with you. By rule, this is a DEFENSIVE appeal. The defense may have a good (or bad) reason for NOT making the appeal at a specific time, and it is entirely their option (and responsibility) to appeal or not.

As Rich I. correctly points out, the offense has the option of sending the proper batter to the plate, assuming whatever count, DURING an improper batter's at bat. But once an improper batter has COMPLETED his at bat, it's the defense's sole prerogative to appeal it.

JM

[mstaylor]

While the batter is at bat, either team or umpire can fix it. After his AB is complete, defense only. Tell the OM thanks but nothing to be done.

[SoCal Lurker]

While the batter is at bat, either team or umpire can fix it. After his AB is complete, defense only. Tell the OM thanks but nothing to be done.

When/why would an umpire "fix" BOO?

[KLAH316]

You did the right thing. BOO is an appeal from the defense. So you say nothing.

It's just like if you see a runner miss a base.... Say nothing until it's brought up with a proper appeal!

[NoCal Blue]

While the batter is at bat, either team or umpire can fix it. After his AB is complete, defense only. Tell the OM thanks but nothing to be done.

+1

[SoCal Lurker]

While the batter is at bat, either team or umpire can fix it. After his AB is complete, defense only. Tell the OM thanks but nothing to be done.

+1

Please help a clueless daddy coach with 2 Qs:

(1) I can't figure out any situation in which the umpire would fix it. Isn't it just the U's job to do nothing and wait for an appeal?

(2) During the bat, does the defense really have the power to "fix" it. Putting aside that the smart defensive move is to wait and see what happens, if the DM objects while the at bat is in progress, what does the U do? Does he direct the wrong batter back to the dugout, or does he just inform the OM that the complaint was made, or something else. And is the wrong batter obligated to leave (again, ignoring that it is the smart thing to do and get the right batter up -- maybe the misguided OM just wants to get a kid an at bat and deliberately skipped over his star in a blow out).

I guess both Qs amount to a longwinded way of asking -- can anyone other than the offense really fix it, or can they just point it out to the offense so that the offense can fix it?

[JaxRolo]

While the batter is at bat, either team or umpire can fix it. After his AB is complete, defense only. Tell the OM thanks but nothing to be done.

+1

Please help a clueless daddy coach with 2 Qs:

(1) I can't figure out any situation in which the umpire would fix it. Isn't it just the U's job to do nothing and wait for an appeal?

(2) During the bat, does the defense really have the power to "fix" it. Putting aside that the smart defensive move is to wait and see what happens, if the DM objects while the at bat is in progress, what does the U do? Does he direct the wrong batter back to the dugout, or does he just inform the OM that the complaint was made, or something else. And is the wrong batter obligated to leave (again, ignoring that it is the smart thing to do and get the right batter up -- maybe the misguided OM just wants to get a kid an at bat and deliberately skipped over his star in a blow out).

I guess both Qs amount to a longwinded way of asking -- can anyone other than the offense really fix it, or can they just point it out to the offense so that the offense can fix it?

I don't believe an Umpire should fix this. I don't see it on any of my books that an Umpire should. Anyone have a reference to this?

[noumpere]

It all depends on what you mean by fix. As soon as either team brings it to the umpires attention the put the correct batter at the plate.

[JaxRolo]

It all depends on what you mean by fix. As soon as either team brings it to the umpires attention the put the correct batter at the plate.

I agree but not before either team brings it up.

[NFUA_44]

It all depends on what you mean by fix. As soon as either team brings it to the umpires attention the put the correct batter at the plate.

I agree but not before either team brings it up.

^^^ This. and even at that I'm not going to "fix" anything. If it's properly appealed I'm going to tell them to get the "proper" batter to the plate to assume whatever count there is, but I'm not going to determine who that proper batter should be. I've answered questions (some pretty silly ones at times) but it's still their ball of yarn to unravel.

[mstaylor]

The umpire is allowed to fix it while the guy bis at bat, never done it but the rules allow it.

[Jocko]

HSV game opening day this season OC calls time and informs me the improper batter is up. Correct batter come in and assumes 2-0 count. No big deal. If DC brings it up (during the AB), same thing. The "fix" during the AB is to get the proper batter to the dish AFTER it has been brought to your attention. As far as the OP, you are under NO obligation to do anything until DC brings it to your attention. That's when it becomes an appeal. If he complains later that you knew and did nothing, tell him it's not in your job description to manage the game for him. No possibility of protest. He dropped the ball. Simple as that.

[Rich Ives]

The umpire is allowed to fix it while the guy is at bat, never done it but the rules allow it.

This editor absolutely SUCKS!

I hope you don't mean you can initiate it on your own. That's expressly against the rules. It has to be disccovered by one of the teams.

OBR Rule 6.07 Comment: The umpire shall not direct the attention of any person to the presence in the

batter’s box of an improper batter. This rule is designed to require constant vigilance by the players and

managers of both teams.

FED 7-1-1 When the improper batter’s infraction is first discovered by either

team, time may be requested and the improper batter replaced by the proper

batter with the improper batter’s ball and strike count still in effect, provided the

infraction is detected before the improper batter is put out or becomes a base

runner. Only the defensive team may appeal batting out of order after the batter

has completed his time at bat.

[mstaylor]

My memory is faulty then, because I thought the umpire could discover it. Like I say, never done, can't imagine being that aware of the order,so there it is.

[noumpere]

you are under NO obligation to do anything until DC brings it to your attention.

Not only are you not under NO obligation to do anything, you are not permitted to do anything until one of the teams brings it to your attention.

[Jocko]

Yes you are correct. Thought we all agreed. BOO infractions should be the easiest to fix.