ANOTHER ...how is this missed??

[Thunderheads]

:givebeer:

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10300051

[carolinablue]

I know this is MLB and things are a little different but once another umpire steps in to try to get the ejected coach off the field shouldn't the other umpire walk off or a least try to put some distance between himself and the ejected coach/player instead of standing there and continuing with the argument. I'm not saying this to be critical, just trying to learn something here. It seems he is making things harder for his partner here.

[Mr Umpire]

How far do you want him to walk away? He took several steps back and the ushering umpire took steps back to let Leyland get close again. If he would have gone to the RF fence, the other umpire seems like he would have let Leyland go there too.

I like the announcers saying U2 had bad positioning. He was in the right position. The play developed badly on him and he did the best he could to see it. It was a high tag and he was unable to see the tag occur b/c of F6's actions. Can't call an out unless you see an out. No assumptions anymore. You can thank those like Jeter and the public for that. They no longer want to see any calls in which the camera can't support the umpire's call. And, to the umpire's defense, that is a fairly close play given his angle and the high throw.

[Thunderheads]

I like the announcers saying U2 had bad positioning. He was in the right position. The play developed badly on him and he did the best he could to see it. It was a high tag and he was unable to see the tag occur b/c of F6's actions. Can't call an out unless you see an out. No assumptions anymore. You can thank those like Jeter and the public for that. They no longer want to see any calls in which the camera can't support the umpire's call. And, to the umpire's defense, that is a fairly close play given his angle and the high throw.

??? you're defending this?

If you can, stop the video on the tag ...I'll try to stop it and take a 'pic' of it and post it, but at :03 it looks like he's got a good look at it, yes?

Edited July 27, 2010 by Thunderheads

[Umpete]

Television camera angles can be deceiving. I don't think he could see when the F6 tagged Upton, or when Upton's touch of second occurred. In real time (not super slo-mo) this was a close play, and terrible angles for Foster on the tag and touch of second. Look at the replay farther along in the video, at about :45 to :50.

I was watching on ESPN last night. Not sure what Leyland said, but it didn't matter. He was so mad he was drooling, and you could read Foster's lips: "You spit on me! Get outta here!"

[Mr Umpire]

??? you're defending this?

If you can, stop the video on the tag ...I'll try to stop it and take a 'pic' of it and post it, but at :03 it looks like he's got a good look at it, yes?

It's nice to be able to pause a bad play and see the whole thing STOPPED. In real time, I bet you won't get that nice look at it.

It was a very high tag and F6's body along with R1's body being in front of the tag and base makes it difficult to see everything. The throw was high and the umpire tried to see everything as well as the foot touching the base. If the throw would have been on target, it wouldn't have even been a questionable play.

Again, if the defense makes the play simple, then the umpire's job is simple. When they make it difficult, sometimes the results are not favorable. Also, none of the camera angles give what the umpire saw. Maybe he focused on something and it didn't let him see the whole play. But, if the defense did their job, then his wouldn't have been made more difficult. And, this wouldn't even be a point of interest.

I'm not defending him missing it. I am presenting a reason why he missed it. There are more aspects and angles than what you see on these videos. We do not get the WHOLE story from these videos. The umpire's take on the play is the MOST IMPORTANT part of the play.

[Thunderheads]

It's nice to be able to pause a bad play and see the whole thing STOPPED. In real time, I bet you won't get that nice look at it.

It was a very high tag and F6's body along with R1's body being in front of the tag and base makes it difficult to see everything. The throw was high and the umpire tried to see everything as well as the foot touching the base. If the throw would have been on target, it wouldn't have even been a questionable play.

Again, if the defense makes the play simple, then the umpire's job is simple. When they make it difficult, sometimes the results are not favorable. Also, none of the camera angles give what the umpire saw. Maybe he focused on something and it didn't let him see the whole play. But, if the defense did their job, then his wouldn't have been made more difficult. And, this wouldn't even be a point of interest.

I'm not defending him missing it. I am presenting a reason why he missed it. There are more aspects and angles than what you see on these videos. We do not get the WHOLE story from these videos. The umpire's take on the play is the MOST IMPORTANT part of the play.

Fair enough, and I guess, that's what I'm looking for ...a potential reason he missed it. Would love to see his angle on it ....

In watching the game itself , ....and seeing the play happen, ...it was apparent that Laird saw it ....and Leyland sure saw it, ....it got him "spittin-mad!":hopmad: ... :shakehead:

[Umpire in Chief]

Yeah, He was in proper positioning, the throw was off the tag was high and the call was missed.

Should he have seen it??? Possibly. Could he have been in a better position? Maybe, but I don't think so.

Another case of bad plays lead to bad calls.

About the ejection. If I were spit on I'd probably find it hard to walk away. I may loose my professionalisim and I'd definately have some choice words. Should he have walked away and let the rest of the crew take care of Leyland? Buy the book yes, but in reality I think he held himself together better than most would.

[txump81]

Watched the video. In real time, a very difficult call. Slo-mo makes it easy. IMO, based upon his position, he couldn't see the tag. Even from the very first camera view in real time, I had difficulty seeing the tag and that view was a better angle. He was straight-lined and couldn't see. And yes, he probably could have gotten a better angle. #2, did this change the outcome of the game...no other mistakes were made by anyone?

[LMSANS]

I had a very similar play a couple of weeks ago. R1 stealing 2B, F2 makes a great throw, F6 comes a coupl of feet in front of the bag and is now between me and R1. I tried to move around but I saw him reach, I never saw the tag. Safe.

F6 asks if he was on the base when he tagged him. I told him I never saw a tag because he blocked me out.

When I was F2, I hated when F6 would take the throw in front of the bag.

I can easuily imagine what happened in the OP.

[jjb]

I know that, in this case, it had to do with a lousy throw. But, around here we call it a 'Little League Tag". You know, where the kid will stick his glove out and tag the runner on the chest, rather than dropping it in front of the bag. They're a bi*ch to call, but you do the best you can.

I was watching that game, and, as soon as I saw it, I knew he got straight-lined. Like I said, it was a crappy throw, and another episode of suprise being our worst enemy.

[yawetag]

#2, did this change the outcome of the game...no other mistakes were made by anyone?

It was a no-hitter for the Rays, so this was probably inconsequential to the overall game.

[Thunderheads]

No , it did not effect the game, ...not that that matters. I like to post these things for thoughts on "what happened" and why calls are missed. It's interesting to see/watch it happen to the TOP TIER! Make us all better!

On Leyland ...if in fact, while he was bitching at Foster, a sunflower seed did pop out of his mouth, (which he does knaw on) ....well, ...so what? Like Leyland said, ...there's a big difference between 'spitting' on someone, and having a seed pop out while yelling, etc.....but, we'll see.....

[txump81]

It was a no-hitter for the Rays, so this was probably inconsequential to the overall game.

I always think about the no mistakes when a bad call is made. Especially when a coach comes out to question something. I always think, "so, when you sent that runner from third and they were out by 3 steps, did I come to you and chew you out". Or when I hear someone complain about an umpire I'll ask them if there were any mistakes.

Just saying...

Position should have been better, but it wasn't. I hope he learned something.

[mstaylor]

As UIC noted bad plays make for bad calls.LB umpires are taught what angle is likely to be best on any given call. What happens is on a play that developes this fast is the umpire has no ability to jab to a better position. If he had jabbed left he would have been completely blocked. On a throw that comes from the outfield you have more time to read the play and react.This just isn't possible on a steal situation.