What to do about undercutting "scabs"

[cyclonehokiece]

I agree with all of this. Just a line that I believe that some associations are starting to lose sight of and just blaming the umpire.

In the case presented in this thread, there is enough blame to go around. The member who took the games at a discount should be outed in your association (not on this board) and dealt with in accordance to your bylaws. The school should be called on their breach of contract with the association, and should be penalized in whatever the terms of the contract state. Also, the board needs to take responsibility for not making sure they are getting the whole schedule to assign if that is what the contract calls for. Everyone can improve in the future.

[zm1283]

How does that infringe on your rights as an independent contractor? You have a choice of who you work for, and if you choose to go with the other group, then your assignor has the option to not give you games. We have the same thing in the STL area. There are 3 umpire associations in the area: GSLAU (my assn.), JCOA, and MUA. As GSLAU members, we are not allowed to work games through any competing organizations (JCOA or MUA). If we choose to accept games from one of those two groups, we will no longer be members of GSLAU, thus no longer receiving games from GSLAU. Completely fair and understandable if you ask me.

It's only fair for the association who is acting like an employer by forbidding you, as an independent contractor, from working for a school that is not part of the association.

They are completely within their rights to not assign you games if you work for other groups, but I have a problem with associations banning members from working in other groups.

[semper_fi_72]

How does that infringe on your rights as an independent contractor? You have a choice of who you work for, and if you choose to go with the other group, then your assignor has the option to not give you games. We have the same thing in the STL area. There are 3 umpire associations in the area: GSLAU (my assn.), JCOA, and MUA. As GSLAU members, we are not allowed to work games through any competing organizations (JCOA or MUA). If we choose to accept games from one of those two groups, we will no longer be members of GSLAU, thus no longer receiving games from GSLAU. Completely fair and understandable if you ask me.

Not fair and understandable and the association is opening itself up to a lawsuit.

You are an independent contractor and they can not dictate any other work you do or don't do.

Isn't competitive business part of American Business?

An Association can dictate how members will perform, what uniforms they wear etc when doing games assigned by them.

They can not tell you that if you work for another Association that they will not assign you games.

Totally Illegal unless they want to actually say and take the responsibility that you are a employee.

We are talking Umpire Association not Union here right?

[zm1283]

How does that infringe on your rights as an independent contractor? You have a choice of who you work for, and if you choose to go with the other group, then your assignor has the option to not give you games. We have the same thing in the STL area. There are 3 umpire associations in the area: GSLAU (my assn.), JCOA, and MUA. As GSLAU members, we are not allowed to work games through any competing organizations (JCOA or MUA). If we choose to accept games from one of those two groups, we will no longer be members of GSLAU, thus no longer receiving games from GSLAU. Completely fair and understandable if you ask me.

Not fair and understandable and the association is opening itself up to a lawsuit.

You are an independent contractor and they can not dictate any other work you do or don't do.

Isn't competitive business part of American Business?

An Association can dictate how members will perform, what uniforms they wear etc when doing games assigned by them.

They can not tell you that if you work for another Association that they will not assign you games.

Totally Illegal unless they want to actually say and take the responsibility that you are a employee.

We are talking Umpire Association not Union here right?

Sure they can. They are not obligated to assign you games as an independent contractor. They also shouldn't be able to tell you that you can't work for other groups or schools unless they want to make you an employee.

[johnnyg08]

I don't think there are any groups in MN that forbid membership in multiple organizations.

I am a member of my high school group and MN's college group. All dual membership does is help me fill my calendar. That has plusses and minuses. There are times where I'd rather work a college game, but I have a HS game and I can't really turn my HS game back on short notice so I lose the college game, but a HS game fee is better than zero game fee. Take the good w/ the bad.

If my availability is limited, that will limit my games. Pretty simple.

[KLAH316]

There are always assignors that get butt-hurt when you work for others too....

I do games for 3 different assignors here and they all have different leagues/schdules so usually they don't conflict.

That said, I do however have to keep each one quiet from the others.... They all pay around the same depending on the level so I just have a personal "First Come, First Served" policy. I won't turn back games from one to work another. That's not cool in my book.

[johnnyg08]

I won't turn back games from one to work another. That's not cool in my book.

I think that's really where they get PO'd.

[Jocko]

In Alabama, HS sports are governed by the Alabama High School Athletic Association, except for the small, mainly religious, school. All member schools are required to use officials that are registered with the state, and members of a state-approved association.Schools would be fined for using unregistered officials, so that does not happen here.

Tell 'em how we roll, Chuck! (This is Fish, BTW)

[Umpire in Chief]

I don't think there are any groups in MN that forbid membership in multiple organizations.

I am a member of my high school group and MN's college group. All dual membership does is help me fill my calendar. That has plusses and minuses. There are times where I'd rather work a college game, but I have a HS game and I can't really turn my HS game back on short notice so I lose the college game, but a HS game fee is better than zero game fee. Take the good w/ the bad.

If my availability is limited, that will limit my games. Pretty simple.

We have this problem in one of my associations where say a guy gets assigned a college game from another assigner then might catch grief from our assigner. We are proposing a bylaw stating that it cant be held against you for taking a higher level game.

[johnnyg08]

I think the umpire needs to be fair to the assigner though. Just b/c the college game comes up, if the change is too last minute, that's not really fair to the assigner unless he has a lot of guys who are open.

[csabo17]

Agreed. Maybe a minimum 2-3 day notice to turn it back in.

[dumbdumb]

Oh, the old hold you back down on the farm so you loose you chance at advancement trick.

I believe there is a person on this board who assigns and he welcomes all chances to promote his officials and just deals with last minute promotions to College Ball. He has worked his rear off to get a good staff, and part of having that good staff is to plan for each and every contingency that will and can arise. He is making sure umpires up and down are being readied for the day when their chance will come, promoting a JV guy to varsity on a moments notice when the varsity guy gets a call at the last minute for a College.

If the orginazation and assignor are doing their job, they welcome promotions, even at the last minute with their staffs. If they do not, maybe they should not be the assignor. They need to have a system in place, just like if the umpire were to, forbid I say this, die on game day or have a last minute family emergency. If an assignor cannot deal with a last minute family emergency and believe me they can, they are just trying to play dictator and being despicable if they deny a promotion, to let you know who is in control. This has no place to hold guys back down on the farm with promotions or just come right out and say it.

""""I do not care about you. I only care about me. You either work for me or work for someone else. I am not here to help you. You are here by the grace of me to do one thing and one thing only. Work for me. If you don't like it you can hit the highway. I do not care whether it is working for another assignor, or moving up the ladder. I am the only thing that counts. Have you got that. Well, do ya. Is there anything about what I just said that you don't understand. It is all about me, not about you. You can take that last minute promotion and stick it in your ear. Go earn that promotion to start with, and then you will no longer work for me, and I will replace you then and only then. I am the one running things, not that temporary one game promotion or whatever"""".

As long as they are upfront and honest like my little rant, buyer beware and you can put up or shut up or quit. As long as they are honest like my rant, give the guy his due.

[johnnyg08]

No, but in my opinion it is a common courtesy issue.

I love the better game, but it is not just about me.

[dumbdumb]

No, but in my opinion it is a common courtesy issue.

I love the better game, but it is not just about me.

And I totally agree with you on that courtesy point.

However, a last minute promotion is just that. It comes out of nowhere, just like a family emergency, and I just think denying that opportunity is not the right way to handle it.

I realize the problems it causes, but they are the exact same as the last minute family emergency. If a last minute family emergency can not be accounted for, then I think that assignor has a problem that needs to be addressed to start with. If a last minute family emergency can be addressed, then so can that very last minute College game. In some areas I am sure those assignors treat their positions as a fiefdom.

However, I think some kind of system can be set up so that everyone will know that they will never be denied a promotion from the assignor, and all contingencies that may arise can be dealt with, and the guilt trip of common courtesy is dealt with to everyone's satisfaction.

[johnnyg08]

Agree. The opportunities often come up at the last minute.