Jumping, leaping over fielder

[jjskitours]

In FED I know it is illegal to hurdle, jump, leap and of course dive over a fielder, unless flat on the ground (no diving ever). However, I recall reading where it

is permissilble to do this over an outstretched arm. For some reason I can not find the case play or rule that makes this legal. The example I believe involved a catcher's

outstretched arm. Anyone have the reference.

[JaxRolo]

I believe that is considered jumping over the fielder. It is the fielders arm after all!

[ukce1861]

8.2.1D "Hurdling the outstreched arms of a fielder is legal."

In this case play, there is even contact between the catcher's glove and the runner's foot - still legal.

[jjskitours]

Thank You. I was looking in Section 8.4

[ukce1861]

Well, seeing that's where the prohibition against jumping over a fielder is, that would seem to make sense, but...this is FED.

[JaxRolo]

8.2.1D "Hurdling the outstreched arms of a fielder is legal."

In this case play, there is even contact between the catcher's glove and the runner's foot - still legal.

Is Hurdling the same as jumping?

[cyclonehokiece]

Being a former track hurdler, yes there is a difference, as hurdling is in stride. However, at younger ages, probably no noticeable difference in player action.

[JaxRolo]

Being a former track hurdler, yes there is a difference, as hurdling is in stride. However, at younger ages, probably no noticeable difference in player action.

So in a HS Varsity game what do you have?

[catsbackr]

If the fielder doesn't have the ball, I might have obstruction.

[24sdad]

Here is the case play cited by ukce:

8.2.1 SITUATION D: R1 is on third with no outs. R1 attempts to score on a fly ball to F8. F8’s throw to F2 is near perfect. R1 sees that the play is going to be close. As F2 stretches for the ball to tag R1, R1 attempts to hurdle F2’s out- stretched arms as the ball bounces in front of the plate and skips into dead-ball territory. As R1 is in the air, F2’s glove catches R1’s foot and both lose their balance and tumble to the ground. (a) R1 gets up and proceeds to the dugout or ( b ) R1 crawls back and touches the plate. RULING: Hurdling the outstretched arms of a fielder is legal. Hurdling or jumping over a fielder who is not lying on the ground is illegal. In (a), the umpire shall call R1 out for missing the plate upon a proper defensive appeal. In ( b ) R1’s run would count.

[Moriarty_45]

I had this happen in a middle school game. Runner coming into second and F4 is swiping glove back after receiving the throw from the F9.Instead of sliding the runner leaps over the outstretched arm and ends up kicking the glove when he jumped. The ball was dislodged and he ended up at second. My partner was on the bases and made the out call for hurdling a fielder. I was uncertain at the time of the call. Everyone behind the backstop were in agreement with the call, even the offending team. I looked it up that night and found out we got it wrong. But, I might have still got the out for intentionally dislodging the ball.

[johnnyg08]

intentionally dislodging the ball.

Really, was this who you were umpiring?

[Replacematt]

I had this happen in a middle school game. Runner coming into second and F4 is swiping glove back after receiving the throw from the F9.Instead of sliding the runner leaps over the outstretched arm and ends up kicking the glove when he jumped. The ball was dislodged and he ended up at second. My partner was on the bases and made the out call for hurdling a fielder. I was uncertain at the time of the call. Everyone behind the backstop were in agreement with the call, even the offending team. I looked it up that night and found out we got it wrong. But, I might have still got the out for intentionally dislodging the ball.

How was it intentional?

[johnnyg08]

How was it intentional?

My point exactly...unless it was Danielson.

[Moriarty_45]

OK. Maybe it wasn't intentional. I guess I want to punish kicking the ball 30 feet into the outfield. No rule against it though. You wouldn't get an out here?

[johnnyg08]

Why would you call an out there? Based on what rule? Just because something is odd, doesn't make it illegal.

[BT_Blue]

intentionally dislodging the ball.

Really, was this who you were umpiring?

"Sweep the leg."

[JaxRolo]

Here is the case play cited by ukce:

8.2.1 SITUATION D: <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> is on third with no outs. <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> attempts to score on a fly ball to <acronym title='Center fielder'>F8</acronym>. F8’s throw to <acronym title='Catcher'>F2</acronym> is near perfect. <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> sees that the play is going to be close. As <acronym title='Catcher'>F2</acronym> stretches for the ball to tag <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym>, <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> attempts to hurdle F2’s out- stretched arms as the ball bounces in front of the plate and skips into dead-ball territory. As <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> is in the air, F2’s glove catches R1’s foot and both lose their balance and tumble to the ground. (a) <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> gets up and proceeds to the dugout or ( b ) <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> crawls back and touches the plate. RULING: Hurdling the outstretched arms of a fielder is legal. Hurdling or jumping over a fielder who is not lying on the ground is illegal. In (a), the umpire shall call <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> out for missing the plate upon a proper defensive appeal. In ( b ) R1’s run would count.

UKCE,

From reading the case I read that F2 must have been laying on the ground there for legal to jump. But if he is not laying on the ground and has his arm stretched out and the runner hurdles or jumps he is out.

[Welpe]

Hurdling or jumping over the outstretched arm of a fielder is legal because the intent of the rule is to protect the head and neck of the fielder being hurdled. Hurdling just an arm poses no significant risk of injury.

[ukce1861]

Here is the case play cited by ukce:

8.2.1 SITUATION D: <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> is on third with no outs. <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> attempts to score on a fly ball to <acronym title='Center fielder'>F8</acronym>. F8’s throw to <acronym title='Catcher'>F2</acronym> is near perfect. <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> sees that the play is going to be close. As <acronym title='Catcher'>F2</acronym> stretches for the ball to tag <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym>, <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> attempts to hurdle F2’s out- stretched arms as the ball bounces in front of the plate and skips into dead-ball territory. As <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> is in the air, F2’s glove catches R1’s foot and both lose their balance and tumble to the ground. (a) <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> gets up and proceeds to the dugout or ( b ) <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> crawls back and touches the plate. RULING: Hurdling the outstretched arms of a fielder is legal. Hurdling or jumping over a fielder who is not lying on the ground is illegal. In (a), the umpire shall call <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym> out for missing the plate upon a proper defensive appeal. In ( b ) R1’s run would count.

UKCE,

From reading the case I read that F2 must have been laying on the ground there for legal to jump. But if he is not laying on the ground and has his arm stretched out and the runner hurdles or jumps he is out.

Nowhere in the case play does it say that F2 is laying on the ground. In fact, it does say that they "both lose their balance and tumble to the ground", which would indicate to me that he was not previously on the ground. Given this case play, I think you'd have a hard time getting an out for jumping, hurdling or leaping over an outstretched arm.

[JaxRolo]

I guess this is one of those we are just not going to agree on. Our association has been teaching and also the FHSAA State Clinicians have said no jumping period. Whether jumping over and arm, leg, body. All for safety reasons. So I see any jumping at all in the fielders vicinity I have an Out.

[UmpJM]

jax,

Then FHSAA has departed from FED rules on this question.

JM

[JaxRolo]

jax,

Then FHSAA has departed from FED rules on this question.

JM

Might be an Interpretation issue at the higher levels. Or maybe my level. Who knows.

If I remember right I have only called out 1 kid in 2 years for jumping so its not a common occurrence.

Just understand I am just doing what I am told. I am really not disagreeing with what others are saying.