F3 Holding the Tag

[Thunderheads]

Game 1 of my U11 travel tourney last night, ..no real issues, game went well, but one thing I wanted to bring up. I'm PU, R1, lefty pitcher, ...pick off play. Easy move, not close, partner signals an easy safe sign, and as I look away to grab a foul ball from the previous pitch from the on-deck batter, I hear "TIME" and I could hear it in my partners voice, he wasn't happy:shakehead:

I look up, and hear " don't do that...runner is safe, throw the ball back to the pitcher, let's go"

I realized that F3 ...obviously was taught, .... to HOLD the tag on the runner while they got up to the bag in case he moved off of the bag. In between innings my partner explains to me when I asked what happened. "It's bush league, ..I hate that ....it just delays the game. Runner is back, I'm not going to call him out, throw back to F1 and let's go!"

I'd never heard of this issue causing an umpire any 'grief' so to speak ..how about you guys?

p.s. no other issues or concerns in the game ...

[Stan W.]

A lot of youth ball mannerisms that they pick up in the u-12 leagues can be annoying to umpires...especially those of us who dont do much "youth" ball anymore....

hand clapping on bases...

holding tags...

calling time to throw the ball in...

wanting time (every time) to step in to the batters box...

bat waving to draw a ball...

some you can do away with and some you have to put up with....I hate hand clapping on the bases.....dont think there is any reason to do it.....but cant stop them. But it annoys me....

There is a reason these things disapear later as they get older.....Once the testosterone starts to bubble up a number of these things manifest themselves into real issues that we umpires have to sort out......I would much rather they stop the kiddy ball stuff before it turns into issues we have to sort out at the higher levels.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Stan W.
usual suspects....spelling and clarity

[Umpire in Chief]

Last night I had 2 Mustang Sectional games and one team was holding the ball on the guy. Some of the kids knew how to climb the ladder, others just stayed ther laying on their bellies. If climbed the ladder I didn't do anything, if they layed there I just told the fielder to throw it back, but either way I was not going to call time.

[buddywilshire]

Game 1 of my U11 travel tourney last night, ..no real issues, game went well, but one thing I wanted to bring up. I'm PU, R1, lefty pitcher, ...pick off play. Easy move, not close, partner signals an easy safe sign, and as I look away to grab a foul ball from the previous pitch from the on-deck batter, I hear "TIME" and I could hear it in my partners voice, he wasn't happy:shakehead:

I look up, and hear " don't do that...runner is safe, throw the ball back to the pitcher, let's go"

I realized that F3 ...obviously was taught, .... to HOLD the tag on the runner while they got up to the bag in case he moved off of the bag. In between innings my partner explains to me when I asked what happened. "It's bush league, ..I hate that ....it just delays the game. Runner is back, I'm not going to call him out, throw back to F1 and let's go!"

I'd never heard of this issue causing an umpire any 'grief' so to speak ..how about you guys?

p.s. no other issues or concerns in the game ...

And just think, from reading your other post you still have like 30 games to go this week! Just giving you a hard time.

It is annoying, and like UIC says some just stay belly on the ground. I agree with your partner, bush league. Stupid and a time waster.

[Dragon29]

I'm with UIC - I won't call 'Time' while they're laying there w/the tag on them, but I'm not real patient w/the defensive player who's doing it either. I usually wait a little and when it's apparent neither player is going to move, I will say, "C'mon, let's go." and that usually gets them to throw the ball back to F1.

I would not do what it sounds like your partner did, which is to call 'Time' in this situation without a request from a player or coach.

[wek29]

So in our league, whenever a player slides into a base - either stolen or going back on a pick off, all the players are taught to call time immediately. Or if it's 1st or 3rd the coach will. Assuming there is no other action, do you give it? From what I am reading here my guess is if I have to adjust the base back, or maybe the player slid in hard and needs to brush off you'd give. What about other times? Let's say pick off at 1st. Base doesn't move, runner is safe and the ball has been thrown back to the pitcher. Do you grant time? Our league does, but I've wondered if that's what we should be doing. No reason for it that I can think of.

[Dragon29]

wek29,

Ask yourself why they're requesting (not 'calling', as you wrote) Time?

Are they requesting Time for a legitimate reason, or are they just trying to rob the defense of an opportunity to capitalize on a possible mistake by the runner?

Other than what I've written above, and for 'legitimate' reasons (as you say - base has become dislodged, runner may be hurt/injured, etc...) I do not grant 'Time' if the ball is anywhere near the runner. Why should I help the offense? In fact, when they request it, I'll respond with a curt, "No."

Once the ball has been thrown back to F1, I'll ask, "Do you still need Time?"; they almost always say, "No."

. . . and, yes - I've had a situation where a runner @ 3B requested Time; I said, "No." but he was so used to getting it whenever he requested it that he just stood right up (off the base) and began dusting himself off. F5 still had the ball & tagged him. "He's out!"

. . . and, yes - I had a very pleasant chat with his manager after that.

[LMSANS]

I do not call time unless there is an equipment (base dislodged) issue.

I had one last week (13u) R1 stole 2B, throw goes in the outfield, base is dislodged, runner has no intention of going anywhere so he asks for time to fix the base. The ball is still in CF. I tell him go ahead and fix but I'm not calling time. By the time he got the base fixed the ball was on the way to F1.

[spiritump]

tell f3 to stop the kid stuff and get the ball back to the f1 asap.--the reason this does not happen in the upper levels --f3 will take one high and tight.

[mstaylor]

On the holding the tag on the runner, I will tell them they had their chance, let's go. I generally don't give time to runners. I was doing a JV game where the manager/third base coach asked for time. I called time and walked straight to him and asked what he needed. The look was priceless and he said he didn't need anything, then said he was sorry. Never asked for time again.

[Dragon29]

I was doing a JV game where the manager/third base coach asked for time. I called time and walked straight to him and asked what he needed. The look was priceless and he said he didn't need anything, then said he was sorry. Never asked for time again.

This is genius! I am going to try this the next time some base coach makes the same, unnecessary request. I only have two games this weekend, but I'll bet I get to try it.

[moblue]

I had a Cal Ripken 11 yr.old District game this week where the runner slid into 3B and held his hand up. The coach did as well but I didn't grant it. The runner's lead foot came off the bag (and was the only part of his body on the bag) so guess what I call? Out. The coach wasn't too happy and even gave me a quick mechanics lesson: "This means time blue" *raises right hand with closed fist*. The kids made sure for the rest of the night they either got up while still touching the bag or that I had granted time.

[Forest Ump]

The coach wasn't too happy and even gave me a quick mechanics lesson: "This means time blue" *raises right hand with closed fist*.

Hey Moblue. You should have given him your hook mechanic and said "This means your gone coach".

[NWA_UMP]

I will tell f3 "back to pitch" and I will tell r1 "walk it up" if I get into this type of situation...After I give those two instructions I turn back to "B" and get ready for the next pitch. I have had ONE situation where a coach who came out on me when his f3 tagged out r1...I asked him one question...did you hear me give instructions to the players on what to do?...he answered "yes"...The look I gave him sent him back to the dugout...grumbling. I explained to him later that f1/f3 had their chance to get r1 and was safe...play ball!