base award

[tommy]

our local high school assigner emails " you make the call " questions from time to time with the answer at the bottom. this morning the question was as follows:

no outs runner on first, BR hits a ground ball to F6 who throws to F4 to late to get the out at second. F4 throws ball out of play on the attempted put out at first. where do you place thr runners.

his answer:

second throw from an infielder is a two base award, R1 scores and BR is awarded second base.

my question is why wouldnt BR be awarded third base, I know I have had this happen to me before and I have awarded third base. my thought is if it were the first throw and a one base award BR would be awarded second base. why not third on a two base award ? I want to get it right next time. any thoughts

[th3]

did the batter runner reach 1st base before the release of the throw that went out play? you have to know that. 2 from the last base touched at the time of release

[txump81]

did the batter runner reach 1st base before the release of the throw that went out play? you have to know that. 2 from the last base touched at the time of release

Exactly my thoughts. Most likely BR hasn't reached 1B unless he is Speedy Gonzales.

[UmpJM]

...

my question is why wouldnt BR be awarded third base, I know I have had this happen to me before and I have awarded third base. my thought is if it were the first throw and a one base award BR would be awarded second base. why not third on a two base award ? I want to get it right next time. any thoughts

tommy,

When the ball is thrown out of play by an infielder, the award is ALWAYS a 2- base award. What changes is the "starting point" of the award.

If it is the "first play by an infielder" on a batted ball, all runners are awarded 2 bases beyond their position at the Time of Pitch.

If it's not the first play by an infielder, it's 2 bases from their position a t the Time of Throw - which is the moment the errant throw left the thrower's hand.

JM

[Don]

If F6 throw to F4 is too late to retire R1, we must presume R1 has reached 2b. So if F4 throws ball out of play score R1.

[jnazz]

F4 won't throw to F3 if the BR is already there, therefore he gets second (2 bases from time of throw)

[yawetag]

Exactly my thoughts. Most likely BR hasn't reached 1B unless he is Speedy Gonzales.

You're telling me that you've never seen a BR reach 1B before the second throw on a double play? Do you work on a field of quicksand?

[zm1283]

Is tagging a base considered the first "play"?

R1, R2, no outs. Ground ball to F5, who steps on 3B for the first out and throws to first, but the ball enters dead ball territory. Is F5 touching the base the first play, making the award from ToT instead of ToP?

The way it happened, R1 had not acquired 2B yet when F5 released the throw, so he ended up at third anyway. B/R was put at 2B.

[Tyennie]

Is tagging a base considered the first "play"?

R1, R2, no outs. Ground ball to F5, who steps on 3B for the first out and throws to first, but the ball enters dead ball territory. Is F5 touching the base the first play, making the award from ToT instead of ToP?

The way it happened, R1 had not acquired 2B yet when F5 released the throw, so he ended up at third anyway. B/R was put at 2B.

Yes F5 making the play at 3B is a "play" therefore TOT.

[buddywilshire]

You're telling me that you've never seen a BR reach 1B before the second throw on a double play? Do you work on a field of quicksand?

He never said that, he said Most likely.

[Umpire in Chief]

BTW its also 2 bases from TOT in the first throw by an infielder if the throw is made after the BR reaches 1st.

[Rich Ives]

BTW its also 2 bases from TOT in the first throw by an infielder if the throw is made after the BR reaches 1st.

Not quite - it's TOT if ALL runner, including the BR have advanced one base at the time of the throw.