coaches eject themselves not the umpires

[umpire08]

hello all this is umpire 08 i have to mention that ejecting a coach is a last resort for the umpire however some umpires will give the coach enough rope to hang himself but if the HC goes too far then you must give the heave-ho but if the coach calms down then we are okay for the moment but in talking about ejections my partner can do it with the best of them and i am starting to learn how to do it but i think sometimes we as officials are too quick on the trigger my point is i guess don't eject unless you have no other recourse my partner says that it is not really the umpires who eject it is the coaches who eject themselves what do you guys say about this i am anxious to hear what you have to say

[LMSANS]

In the great majority of the cases, this is true. I don't think I have ever ejected somebody who didn't ask for it.

[Umpire in Chief]

It's been said a number of times before, "You wont regret the ejections you make, you'll regret the ejections you don't make."

Looking back on this year there are 2 situations I regret not pulling the trigger on, but the few ejections I did have I hardly think about. These two situations will be lessons for me so that I won't make the same mistake twice.

[mstaylor]

Ejections are not necessarily a last resort. A coach can cross the line and you may still be able to calm him down enough to keep him in the game, but at what cost? All you have done is not teach him anything except he can say what he wants, how he wants. If a coach crosses the line, get rid of him. Many umps will dump a kid with no problem, but seem reluctant to do the same with a coach. I watched a guy one night actually plead with a guy to back off so he didn't have to toss him.

He felt because they were good friends he didn't want to throw him. I told him that was BS, the coach had no problem going over the top, friends or not.

[Stan W.]

Over the years my ejection total has been consistently very low.......I havent done any scientific analysis of the whys, but in the VAST majority of the cases, the coach has ejected himself and all I did was confirm it......

There are two points that I want to make concerning ejections and I do my best to make sure all my Umpire candidiates know these.... (I know MSTaylor is also a trainer of Umpires and we have discussed this before)

1. Ejection is "NOT" something we should avoid at all costs........Sometimes the "do all you can to keep them in the game" mentality allows a problem coach to continue his bad behavior further down the line.....You are not doing any of your fellow umpires any favors by passing on down the line a coach who consistently or blatantly crosses the line.....

2. A respected Umpire (CC) has said that you can trace a majority of coach ejections to an Umpire error... and looking back over the course of my own career, a good amount of ejections have come from controversial calls... (I keep a game journal, so yes, I do know what caused them)...Now, controversial calls or a blown call in itself is not enough to cause an ejection,since they are part of the game.....but it usually comes from a coach who can not let it go or goes across the line with his complaints.

As you improve as an umpire your ejection rate should come down as well........ The last thing about reducing your ejection rate has to do with your reputation. Im not recommending becoming trigger happy so you get an "quick trigger" reputation, but I am recommending that you have boundaries... In my experience, your reputation for being fair and consistent and having a line that should not be crossed will go along way with coaches..

Best of luck..

[blindumpire99]

I agree with Stan. I will add 2 cents in (before Obama takes THAT) that I have never ejected anyone--they've always done it to themselves. We're just the ticket punchers for that train ride.

Stan says that many EJ's can be traced to an umpire's error. That is one area that I can say, personally, that has never occurred with me ( The EJ after an error part---NOT the MAKING of the errors themselves as I do plenty!). On the occasions where I have had a coach in my face, I have been man enough to admit any blunders that I may have committed, but I have never tossed anyone for what I did. Nor have I changed something like a judgment call or a "noncorrectable" call becasue of someone in my face (so to speak).

Don't misunderstand me. I've been lucky that, so far, no one has crossed "the line" for an EJ after I have made an error (knocks on wood:smachhead:) and if they had/do, I won't hesitate to dump them. I guess I've been lucky in that aspect.

[mstaylor]

I had a year about ten years ago that I was tossing everyone in sight. I probably had twenty or twenty-five ejections. Most of them were the other guy's ejection he didn't take care of and I had to dump them later to protect him.

One that I remember that was mine was a JrLL game. The manager's son struke out looking and threw his bat from the batter's box to the face of the dugout, almost at first. His Dad didn't understand why I threw him and almost got himself dumped in the process.

[PeteBooth]

hello all this is umpire 08 i have to mention that ejecting a coach is a last resort for the umpire

I do not agree with the aforementioned.

Remember there are 2 Coaches and each for the most part deserves to be treated the same way. If you wait until "the last resort" for one coach then it stands to reason you will have to wait until the "last resort" for the other coach.

When it comes to EJ's it will almost always generate a good discussion because we are all differernt. Also, we are NOT Professional umpires so IMO, we do not have to take the abuse MLB umpires take because we do not deal with player Unions BIG Bucks etc. so you cannot compare umpiring at the major league level to what we do.

What circumstances prompt an EJ to the coach?

Most likley a controversial call (OBS / Interference call especially in a FED game when you invoke the FPSR) OR

A close out / safe call and it could be one you have kicked like the one we saw in the ACLS sereis.

When we Kick a call there is a certain amount of "heat" that we should expect but not to the point where the game will slow down.

Generally speaking as long as the coach does not get PERSONAL with me and he understands "it's enough" meaning you had your say and it's time to play ball I have no problem.

Whenever a coach gets personal then IMO he has to go. I am not going to wait until the last resort before tossing him once he utters a personal attack on my integrity. Also, a Racial slur is an instantaneous EJ. No room for that kind of non-sense

I agree with the statement a coach EJ's himself. We are only the vehicle, however, I do not agree with waiting until the last resort.

The one vehicle that I wish other leagues using OBR would adopt is restricting a coach to the bench area which we can do in a FED game.

From my experience, once you restrict the coach to the bench for the most part no problems the rest of the way. That is his "warning' so to speak. OBR has no such provision.

Pete Booth

[catoblue]

To me, when a coach or player crosses the line, they are simply asking to be ejected. Who am I to deny their request. I simply take the ticket they are handing me and punch it for them. It's almost like being a Genie and granting wishes!!!!!

[mstaylor]

I had a AL game years ago where as umpires neither my partner nor I took care of business when we should have and it bit us in the butt. We ended up with several ejections late but the funny one was the VC. He hadn't said boo about my zone until I banged a kid on the a third strike for the third out. He comes out and tells me I 'm going to have to F***ing throw him because he's going to argue balls and strikes. I tell him OK and he proceeds to berate me. Then he repeats his original statement. I tell him OK, considered himself tossed. He says no, I have have to throw him. He wants a big throw to get his team going and I refused to help him. I told him he was tossed and for him to leave while showing him a sooing motion. I thought he was going to have a stroke. Sorry if I told this before, I forget what stories I have told where.

[Bigdog]

Hey all,

Regardless of what any umpire thinks, I would tend to believe that most, if not ALL players and coaches know how far they should be able to go before they are asking for the old heave ho. Once they hit that limit, it is just a matter of them seeing how much they can get away with.

Let's face it, by the time they get to HS, most athletes are the "alpha" types and want to try and control everything they can, given an opportunity.

Bigdog:cool:

[Majordave]

I have only been umpiring officially, with a card, for three years. I coached for 18 years and the last six years were American Legion Jr. and Sr. level (for those that don't know, Jr's = up to age 17 and Sr's= up to age 19).

The first year I had ZERO ejections. I tended to let coaches walk all over me. I took a lot of crap and although I knew the rules and hustled my ass off I missed calls and was in the wrong place occasionally. Plus, I was unsure of myself. I had to work a lot of HS JV and middle school ball that year where anything can happen.

Second year, mostly lesser quality HS varsity. Not so good baseball but zero ejections during HS season. Then the summer tournament season began. It was hot, some of the baseball was bad and I worked at a local tournament mill in Central Kentucky where the teams paid $300 to $ 400 to play. I worked with a lot of more senior umpires and they got on me to quit letting coaches gripe and complain about any call. I took their advice. My first EJ was a coach I had coached against several years earlier who stayed at the 13 and 14 year old level. He argued balls and strikes and said that if I threw him out it would be the best call I made all day. I took him up on the offer and gave him the big heave ho. I later figured out that his team was not playing well and he was just trying to fire them up. I had popped my cherry and now I was a no crap-taking ejection machine. 18 more that summer. Some players for throwing bats, helmets, cussing. Mostly coaches for arguing and acting like a-holes.

Last year, two ejections during HS and college (NAIA, NCAA Div II and III) season. The first was an NCAA DIII coach for dropping the F-bomb on family day Sunday from the top step after he accepted an explanation on a call. (his guy stealing never made the bag on a wet clay soil field and was tagged in the back by F4 after a terrible throw.) I think he was trying to fire his team up as they were down by 5 and scored 9 in that inning after the EJ. The second was on HS opening day. Defending State Champions at home with their ace pitcher (not throwing that day) at the plate with 2 runners on and one out (this kid already had 3RBI in the first inning). I rung him up on a nasteeeeee! curve ball that dropped off the table on the outer half (pitcher that threw it is now a DI football player in the SEC. Catcher butchered it but it was a great pitch. This kid slams his bat on the plate and yells "that's bull***t". I tell him "14 you're done for today". His coach comes out for an explanation as he didn't hear the kid curse due to fans yelling (huge crowd for opening day). Coach says "but Dave, it's only the effin' first game!" I say, "I know Mick, and its only the effin' third inning! Can you believe it?" We both laugh and go on with the game. His team wins. I had them six or seven more times during the season without so much as a peep or question from coaches or players on that team at any of their games.

The rest of the HS and college seasons I had no EJ's. Summer ball, many games at the same venues with only one or two EJ's for kids throwing bats and helmets (a pet peeve of mine).

I know for a fact from more than one coach and other umpires that my rep is now that I am a no BS umpire who will eject without much provocation.

I like that rep and hope it continues.

I guess I want to echo the commentary from Michael Taylor that they run in spurts and after you get a reputation that you will eject they don't push it or you anymore.

I think that after enough games you get a feel for when to eject and for what.

Thanks for reading.