Plate Position

[soapbox]

Play at plate, ball coming from RF, hits the cut off between 1B and Pitcher mound. Where should I be to get best look? Runner came in standing, avoided catcher, and catcher swept tag around on his back. I called safe, didn't see the tag, apparently the catcher and the coach did. Didn't impact anything. I was not exactly 1B extended, but maybe a couple steps to 3B. Is this the wrong spot for me. Thanks for the info.

[Thunderheads]

Play at plate, ball coming from RF, hits the cut off between 1B and Pitcher mound. Where should I be to get best look? Runner came in standing, avoided catcher, and catcher swept tag around on his back. I called safe, didn't see the tag, apparently the catcher and the coach did. Didn't impact anything. I was not exactly 1B extended, but maybe a couple steps to 3B. Is this the wrong spot for me. Thanks for the info.

On a swipe tag, you're best spot to see it would be 3blx ..... if you search for 'play at the plate' there will be lots of info on certain situations

ON EDIT, ...here....

http://umpire-empire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20379&highlight=play+plate

Edited June 17, 2010 by Thunderheads

[BrianC14]

Play at plate, ball coming from RF, hits the cut off between 1B and Pitcher mound. Where should I be to get best look? Runner came in standing, avoided catcher, and catcher swept tag around on his back. I called safe, didn't see the tag, apparently the catcher and the coach did. Didn't impact anything. I was not exactly 1B extended, but maybe a couple steps to 3B. Is this the wrong spot for me. Thanks for the info.

1. Start out at the point of the plate, and a few steps back from your position at the time of the pitch. From here you can see everything develop right in front of you.

2. As the runner rounds third, give him a look and ensure he touches the base. It helps to do something physical to tell yourself 'He touched'. Some guys say give a quick nod of the head... I've found that to be too overt, so I simply wink my left eye. (Trust me, it helps... if an appeal is made, you'll remember that you nodded, or winked, etc.).

3. As the runner begins to come home, (your eyes now have returned to the ball) move to your right to align yourself with the 3B line, extended. (3BLX) Stay on the dirt - don't move farther away than the dirt circle.

4. As you see the play develop, look for where the catcher is setting up - in most cases, a catcher will position himself just in front of and slightly up the third base line. Follow that movement and adjust yourself accordingly as he moves into that position... in most cases, you will want to move a step farther to your right. As the runner comes in (why oh why don't they just slide? ) read what's happening there and position yourself one last time as the catcher is receiving the throw and runner (assuming) starts his slide. IMPORTANT: Leave yourself time to make a very small adjustment to either left or right if the runner changes his path at the last minute (such as in your case, he decides not to slide) or if the catcher repositions himself to the flight path of the ball. Most runners will attempt their to the outside (foul area) of the line and attempt to touch the plate with their lead foot or their hand as they pass by. It's critical to see that happen because on a banger, the catcher will now be sweeping his tag toward the runner, and on a whacker, it'll happen quickly and at nearly the same time, so stay far enough back (resist the urge to be right on top of it - being too close means the play can 'blow up' in your face and you're actually too close to see the whole play. Ask yourself, "Touch first or tag first?" and then signal your decision.

Edited June 17, 2010 by BrianC14

[soapbox]

Thanks Brian. I've been working alot of games, but this was what I would call very good ball players. Big field, but everything happens so quick. It was quite the experience from LL Majors to this wood bat league. I would have loved to know for sure I got it right, but from catchers reaction, I was sure I kicked it. They won by alot, so no harm, but do you ever say to the catcher (nice kid), if you missed it, basically, your sorry. Or do you just stay out there stoically as if there was nothing missed. He didn't complain, simply when asked by coach did you get him, his reply, yeah I had him. Oh well. I really do want to get good at this.

[Umpire in Chief]

Brian's right on.

Read the play, starting from point of plate and adjust as needed. Don't fall in love with a particular spot to be for the call. It may be good for the majority of calls, but there be ones you need to react to.

I'd suggest when you have a ball coming in to the plate even if there is no play practice reading it and imagine there is going to be a play, this will help you find where you're comfortable without the pressure. I do this a lot.

[BrianC14]

Thanks Brian. I've been working alot of games, but this was what I would call very good ball players. Big field, but everything happens so quick. It was quite the experience from LL Majors to this wood bat league. I would have loved to know for sure I got it right, but from catchers reaction, I was sure I kicked it. They won by alot, so no harm, but do you ever say to the catcher (nice kid), if you missed it, basically, your sorry. Or do you just stay out there stoically as if there was nothing missed. He didn't complain, simply when asked by coach did you get him, his reply, yeah I had him. Oh well. I really do want to get good at this.

So you stepped up to big-boy baseball? Good for you!

As far as differences, yeah, tell me about it. This past spring I worked a Division I game in Florida. I'd grown accustomed to working some very good 5A high school and small college games here, but man - talk about a HUGE step up from those games to Div. 1.

Early on in the game, I had a whacker at home. I still believe I called it right - but F2 kept insisting that he'd blocked the runner off the plate. I told him what I saw - that he'd blocked the runner ONTO the plate, and that the tag was late. Their manager's out now, and he's venting his spleen, popping both carotid arteries, hat's off, the whole bit..."Ball got there first, Brian"... and it's now I'm fully realizing .... "SH*#, this is big-time freakin' baseball, isn't it?" - - which made me start questioning myself ..."Maybe I did kick this call..."

Well here's what I learned from that one argument (and there were more from the other side)...

1) DON'T YOU DARE APOLOGIZE. You go in with all your integrity, you better be sure you take all of it with you. If you don't, you'll have that much less going into your next game.

2) You explain what you saw, and be honest about it. With managers that know how to argue, he'll try to rephrase his question - - BE CAREFUL HERE -- he's trying to get you to contradict yourself, and I almost fell into that trap. You simply restate what you saw, using the same words.

3) Once you find that you're repeating yourself, the discussion needs to come to an abrupt end. All that's left now is for him to be told that he needs to return to the dugout, and the game needs to get going again.

Hey, I've included in some explanations during an argument, "Jim, I called that ball fair based on what I could see at the moment. I did get partially blocked by your catcher when he jumped up, but I was on the line and I made the best call I could get under the circumstances." Now - MOST managers aren't going to be able to continue to give you grief over that... .but of course, that depends on the level of ball you're working. There are plenty of pinhead managers out there at the lower levels and some in high school and even college that think you're supposed to be Superman with X-Ray vision, and they want you to employ those powers SO LONG AS IT BENEFITS THEIR SIDE. (Get the joke). But those direct and honest explanations will only take you so far. Next time.... don't plan on it being easily accepted, and don't use things like that as a crutch. (i.e., don't get blocked out - take a different path/position to get the call with unobstructed view, etc.)

:)

[noumpere]

On a swipe tag, you're best spot to see it would be 3blx

True on most swipe tags, which are on the "side" of the runner. On the OP, though, the tag (or attempt) was on the back of the runner -- after the runner had gone by the catcher.

On this play, you need to get to 3BE (originally reading a swipe) and then move to as close to 1BL (that is, move to the right) as you can get to see "behind" the runner.

[Thunderheads]

True on most swipe tags, which are on the "side" of the runner. On the OP, though, the tag (or attempt) was on the back of the runner -- after the runner had gone by the catcher.

On this play, you need to get to 3BE (originally reading a swipe) and then move to as close to 1BL (that is, move to the right) as you can get to see "behind" the runner.

bingo!!!!!!!!! :Spit_20Laugh:

[soapbox]

I only wish I new the runner was coming in up. Close play, had he slid, it just seemed like you want to be 1BX. But from what I'm reading I guess not. I'll get it.

[Thunderheads]

I only wish I new the runner was coming in up. Close play, had he slid, it just seemed like you want to be 1BX. But from what I'm reading I guess not. I'll get it.

Rememeber too, not to get TOO close to the play, that helps sometimes too;)

[rth54]

Brian,

Thanks so much for your posts on this topic...really, really helpful stuff!

[BrianC14]

Brian,

Thanks so much for your posts on this topic...really, really helpful stuff!

You're very welcome, glad I could help.

:Spit_20Laugh:

[strike3scott]

I wish I had some words of wisdom for you but Brian and Thunderheads nailed it. Great advice guys. One thing though - be prepared to have the on deck batter in your way at some point. Had one moving into my way to tell a runner to slide......slight push and I made my point.... this is my territory.

[BrianC14]

I wish I had some words of wisdom for you but Brian and Thunderheads nailed it. Great advice guys. One thing though - be prepared to have the on deck batter in your way at some point. Had one moving into my way to tell a runner to slide......slight push and I made my point.... this is my territory.

Oh yes.... keep an arm out to ensure those guys don't get in front of you!

+1

:clap:

[spiritump]

as a rule--when you can, always take a play at the plate 3 base line expended--this way the play is always comming at you--the only time you take a play at the plate 1st base exended is if the ball beats the runner and the catcher is waiting for the runner with the ball.

[catoblue]

Another monkey wrench to throw in the mix if you're doing a lot of 12U and 10U games...

Runner coming home on a passed ball. Where F2 goes to retrieve it will also limit you on where you can set up - simply to keep yourself from interfering with the throw to F1 (who should be covering). Many times, this is what dictates whether I'm on 3blx or 1blx, the point, or somewhere else. As long as you read the play as it develops, you should be able to slide left or right to a spot where you have a halfway decent (but not the best) angle to see the whole play.