what do you cover in your pregame?

[mstaylor]

John, I know what you are saying but I try everytime to make it back. I make it at least three times a season. I have never had to make a call but dang it looks sharp when you make it. And believe me coaches notice.

[BrianC14]

John, I know what you are saying but I try everytime to make it back. I make it at least three times a season. I have never had to make a call but dang it looks sharp when you make it. And believe me coaches notice.

Again, +1. What's worse is that they also notice when you don't.

There's no substitute for hustle, and there's no excuse for laziness.

[kcfan102]

spiritump,

Chill, dude.

I think you missed his point.

To me, it's largely a theoretical question.

The mechanics I was taught have the BU, if able, return to the plate area for any possible play on the BR at HP.

So, the only time it would even potentially come into play is in an "inside the park home run" situation. How many of those have you had? When there was a play at the plate?

Me neither.

I have had one game in my life where my BU got back to HP after having "gone out" on a trouble ball in RF. As I was taking the BR from 2nd to 3rd, I heard him let me know he had home. The runner stopped at 3B. When I turned to look after the play, he was in perfect position on 3BLX.

Impressed the hell out of me. I gave him the big "fist bump". I doubt anyone else there even noticed.

The issue is "if possible". The fact of the matter is, if it's a "deep" trouble ball, you're going to go out a ways, and your primary responsibility is to observe whether the ball stays in LBT or if there is fan interference. Instruction I've had says you "stay with the ball" until the fielder releases a throw to the infield.

So, that's what I do. I have NEVER gotten anywhere near home plate before the play "ended" and it never ended at home plate.

Despite what the book says, in the real world, it's not a big deal. I do it the book way, because you never know. If someone else doesn't, it's probably not going to matter in their lifetime. There are a lot mor important things to do "by the book".

JM

I said this once before but I'll mention it again. Before the season started, a couple of JEA grads taught a class on basic umpiring and then more advanced umpiring and they too stressed that flyballs centerfield straight and back, all the way to RF, U1 needs to go out. As soon as the ball is on it's way back into the infield, turn and haul ass to 4 if you can. As PU, you need to take B/R all the way to home unless U1 calls you off. But like you said, deep fly balls, getting to home may prove difficult.

I have a similar story to yours, JM

A few weeks ago, we were on the big field for the first time (HS just ended) It was a hot humid saturday afternoon. I'm in A. kid hits a piss rocket to right center. I go out, hard. I get set, watch the ball land and then it goes back into the infield. I'm hauling to home. About as I get to 1B I see there is going to be a play at 3B, I yell "I got 4 ,Scott!" I get to 3BLX and by the time I'm set, PU (Scott) unleashes the hammer. We both hustle back to our positions and I hear players and coaches on the first base dugout said "You guys made that look good." They noticed, parents notices, and a couple of umpires in the stands noticed too.

I'm with Brian, get home. You really need to get there, PU in the infield will have a hell of a time getting back to get any kind of angle.

[Umpire in Chief]

For a 53 year old(witrh 29 years) YOU DONT NO WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT--SOMETIMES UMPIRES ARE ARE WORST ENEMIES--YOU KNOW BETTER(WITH YOUR 29 YEARAS)THAN ANYONE ELSE???

spiritump

Chill, dude.

I think you missed his point.

To me, it's largely a theoretical question.

Okay guys were getting a little too excited here...

flyballs centerfield straight and back, all the way to RF, U1 needs to go out. As soon as the ball is on it's way back into the infield, turn and haul ass to 4 if you can. As PU, you need to take B/R all the way to home unless U1 calls you off. But like you said, deep fly balls, getting to home may prove difficult.

Awesome point Brandon this play has huge communication issues involved. The BU may have to stay out longer than for just the Fair/foul catch/ no-catch. Sometimes when there is a tarp, batting cage, bullpen, imaginary DBT lines or some other irregularity in a corner he may need to stay out for that call. So the PU will have it until called off by the BU. But without any such issue, the BU should wait until the BR has committed to second then bust tail back to the plate. He may or may not get there but should be communicating, "I'm coming home", "I'm here if he comes" just like the plate guy does in a typical rotation. And if you're not going to be there let him know that too.

True this doesn't come up much, I can only recall rotating home once as BU and didn't have a play, and don't think I've ever had a partner come home on me, but it is the mechanic. Not perfect, but it's what we have.

[PeteBooth]

I have a checklist I got at a clinic but I do mainly small diamond and lower lever big diamond ball... quite often my partner gives me a deer in the headlights look at the mention of pregame.

You have received some good advice BUT the Pre-game assumes ( I know we are not supposed to assume) that both of you are on the "same page"

The same page means that there are certain "givens" you MUST know whether you have a pre-game or not.

Here are some examples (BIG diamond)

1. Your partner MUST know what the A / B and C positions are in the first place. He MUST also know when he should be in the A / B or C position as well.

2. The "V" - When you say to your partner you have a catch / no catch responsibilities in the "V". Your partner MUST know what the "V" is. Therefore, if your partner gives you the deer in the headlights look when you metnion the "V" , you might as well stop there because nothing else you say will make sence.

3. When does BU go out when in A? Your partner should KNOW this. If you go to clinics there is a list of when the BU is to go out. What you do not want is a sinking line drive in RF and your partner comes in and then you as PU have to "guess" whether it's a catch or no catch ESPECIALLY on those drizzly type nights or foggy nights when it's difficult to see. OR your partner goes out and doesn't stay out and then he makes a different call then you on a play at second base when that is YOUR call.

Generally speaking when you are doing 60ft. diamond ball or low level big diamond ball you are NOT working with guys/gals who have very much training.

You do not have a "thesis" when going over pre-game responsibilities. What you want to cover are those EXCEPTIONS to the rule so that you know what your partner will do.

Example: Generally speaking the PU has the catch / no catch down the lines and also the tag up of R3, however, if it's troubled ball down the RF line in that instance you might want to check with your partner in Pre-game to see if he will take the tag-up at third base.

There are others. In other words in my pre-game with another Certified official I go over the troubled areas. I am assuming he knows what the basics are.

There has to be a set of standards that all partners should know. You do not have time to go over EVERYTHING.

When you do have a pre-game and get that deer in the headlights look you are in trouble because it's apparent that your partner has NO clue on where he should be or what to do.

If that happens tell the BU to do the following:

1. In A DO NOT go out. I have EVERYTHING

2. When in B or C you have the catches from LC to RC. I have the lines.

3. I have the FIRST touch at third base. You have ANY runner following.

4. If there is a SECOND play in the infield I have the runner at third base. (I know current mechanics say the BU has BOTH plays)

In other words keep it as simple as possible.

if your partner does NOT know what the A B or C positions are, you might as well tell him to go home and do the game solo.

I recommend joining an association that puts on clincis etc. so that when you are assigned a partner, your partner has "some clue" on what to do.

In your situation it appears that the Pre-game wouldn't help since as you say you got the deer in the headlights look.

Pete Booth

[BrianC14]

You have received some good advice BUT the Pre-game assumes ( I know we are not supposed to assume) that both of you are on the "same page"

The same page means that there are certain "givens" you MUST know whether you have a pre-game or not.

Here are some examples (BIG diamond)

1. Your partner MUST know what the A / B and C positions are in the first place. He MUST also know when he should be in the A / B or C position as well.

2. The "V" - When you say to your partner you have a catch / no catch responsibilities in the "V". Your partner MUST know what the "V" is. Therefore, if your partner gives you the deer in the headlights look when you metnion the "V" , you might as well stop there because nothing else you say will make sence.

etc. etc. etc.

Holy !

If you have to pregame what A, B and C are, and what the "V" is, then you might want to consider telling your partner to sit in the stands.

Anyone calling themselves "umpire" that doesn't know that very basic information ("Uh, where do I stand?") shouldn't be on the field to start with, because they're certainly not an umpire, they're just an empty uniform.

:D

[yawetag]

I said this once before but I'll mention it again. Before the season started, a couple of JEA grads taught a class on basic umpiring and then more advanced umpiring and they too stressed that flyballs centerfield straight and back, all the way to RF, U1 needs to go out. As soon as the ball is on it's way back into the infield, turn and haul ass to 4 if you can. As PU, you need to take B/R all the way to home unless U1 calls you off. But like you said, deep fly balls, getting to home may prove difficult.

Key words: if you can. Brian argues that a 50 or 60-something home plate umpire can't take the runner around the bases, yet doesn't concede that the same umpire couldn't go out on a trouble ball and make it back to home in time. To put it simply: know your partner's limitations.

Also, NEVER say "I've got home" until you've got home. Don't say it when you're running past 1B, at the 45-foot mark, or 10' from the dirt circle -- say it when you're in a position to make a call. We have a MiLB umpire in our organization that has a good story on this. His partner goes out on a trouble ball and begins to make his bust to HP. At about the 45' mark, he yells "I've got the plate" just as he trips and falls. Luckily, there was no play, but it inforces the point -- don't call it until you've got it.

[LMSANS]

I actually had it happen 3 times in the same game this year. It was a freshman game. Not very competative. I was BU.

First time is a trouble ball, F9 going towards line for "diving" catch, misses and now I'm watching the ball for the dead ball area. It doesn't make it there, runner goes into 3B and PU is with him. I got almost to 1B. I forgot about the plate until I had trotted most of the way.

I go in to my partner between innings, confirm that if it comes up again, I'll be busting to get there. I didn't run fast (or anything close to it) when I was 17 and 160 lbs, I'm a little slower now at 52 and considerably heavier, but I digress.

Next inning the same thing happens. I make sure the ball starts it's way in and then I bust in to HP. I'm about halfway between 1b and hp when the throw to f5 skids out of play. Runner scores.

Next batter hits one over F9, now I have to go out because there is some equipment out there. F9 catches up to the ball, picks it up and throws to F4 about 100' into the OF. I again turn and bust to the plate. Almost get there when the ball is relayed to F1 and the BR is standing on third with my partner looking over his shoulder to call time and let us get into position.

It can, and does, happen. If there had been a play at the plate either time I would have stopped, and shifted to get myself at the best angle and made my call with "proper use of the eyes."

[BrianC14]

Key words: if you can. Brian argues that a 50 or 60-something home plate umpire can't take the runner around the bases, yet doesn't concede that the same umpire couldn't go out on a trouble ball and make it back to home in time. To put it simply: know your partner's limitations.

Also, NEVER say "I've got home" until you've got home. Don't say it when you're running past 1B, at the 45-foot mark, or 10' from the dirt circle -- say it when you're in a position to make a call. We have a MiLB umpire in our organization that has a good story on this. His partner goes out on a trouble ball and begins to make his bust to HP. At about the 45' mark, he yells "I've got the plate" just as he trips and falls. Luckily, there was no play, but it inforces the point -- don't call it until you've got it.

You're right - I don't concede that.

Let's face it - an umpire in 'A' starts out at roughly 105 feet from the plate.

He goes out.

In all my experience, I've never had time to get more than 40 feet down the line, get set and make the call (fair/foul, catch/not-catch). Guys, you're not supposed to be in the outfielder's armpit when he's making his play on the ball, and you should never be moving when you make the call. The idea is to get an angle to make the call - getting closer to it isn't the be-all, end-all of going out. So in most cases, you're going to be no more than 150 feet at the most away from home plate.

Now, the B/R has to travel a minimum of 360 feet around the bases. It's actually more than than when you consider that on an extra base hit, he's bowing way out as he rounds each base.

I maintian that if an umpire can't move himself fast enough to cover 150 feet while a B/R has what left at that point - - maybe 270 feet - maybe 250? Then that person has no business being on a baseball field. HUSTLE!

On the few occasions where I"ve had to make a full return to the plate, I've usually mirrored the B/R as he's going into 3B. In other words, I'm at least 90' ahead of him - which is the whole idea of returning to home - be ahead of the runner.

[spiritump]

you're right - i don't concede that.

Let's face it - an umpire in 'a' starts out at roughly 105 feet from the plate.

He goes out.

In all my experience, i've never had time to get more than 40 feet down the line, get set and make the call (fair/foul, catch/not-catch). Guys, you're not supposed to be in the outfielder's armpit when he's making his play on the ball, and you should never be moving when you make the call. The idea is to get an angle to make the call - getting closer to it isn't the be-all, end-all of going out. So in most cases, you're going to be no more than 150 feet at the most away from home plate.

Now, the b/r has to travel a minimum of 360 feet around the bases. It's actually more than than when you consider that on an extra base hit, he's bowing way out as he rounds each base.

I maintian that if an umpire can't move himself fast enough to cover 150 feet while a b/r has what left at that point - - maybe 270 feet - maybe 250? Then that person has no business being on a baseball field. Hustle!

On the few occasions where i"ve had to make a full return to the plate, i've usually mirrored the b/r as he's going into 3b. In other words, i'm at least 90' ahead of him - which is the whole idea of returning to home - be ahead of the runner.

well said--if you can move do not get on the field

[spiritump]

I actually had it happen 3 times in the same game this year. It was a freshman game. Not very competative. I was BU.

First time is a trouble ball, F9 going towards line for "diving" catch, misses and now I'm watching the ball for the dead ball area. It doesn't make it there, runner goes into 3B and PU is with him. I got almost to 1B. I forgot about the plate until I had trotted most of the way.

I go in to my partner between innings, confirm that if it comes up again, I'll be busting to get there. I didn't run fast (or anything close to it) when I was 17 and 160 lbs, I'm a little slower now at 52 and considerably heavier, but I digress.

Next inning the same thing happens. I make sure the ball starts it's way in and then I bust in to HP. I'm about halfway between 1b and hp when the throw to f5 skids out of play. Runner scores.

Next batter hits one over F9, now I have to go out because there is some equipment out there. F9 catches up to the ball, picks it up and throws to F4 about 100' into the OF. I again turn and bust to the plate. Almost get there when the ball is relayed to F1 and the BR is standing on third with my partner looking over his shoulder to call time and let us get into position.

It can, and does, happen. If there had been a play at the plate either time I would have stopped, and shifted to get myself at the best angle and made my call with "proper use of the eyes."

LARRY--HOW MANY OTHER IN sua WOULD BE AT THE PLATE?? GOOD JOB--BOB