Little League umpire positions

[Armgdnman]

Can someone help me out here with the rule stating where LL umpires should be positioned?

Thanks for your help

[Mr Umpire]

Umpire positioning is not a rule. It is a mechanic for obtaining the best position to see a play or violation. And, it changes all the time.

In LL where runners have to wait for the ball to "cross the plate", the umpires stand on the outside of the infield. Then, they can see the runner and have everything in front of them to see if he leaves early.

Others who do LL will better describe this.

[Armgdnman]

Umpire positioning is not a rule. It is a mechanic for obtaining the best position to see a play or violation. And, it changes all the time.

In LL where runners have to wait for the ball to "cross the plate", the umpires stand on the outside of the infield. Then, they can see the runner and have everything in front of them to see if he leaves early.

Others who do LL will better describe this.

I understand positioning is considered to be part of "umpire mechanics". I just didnt know if there was something written making these positions a requirement.

[Jboval]

Actually the LL rulebook states that an umpire can stand anywhere on the field that he feels will give him the best placement and view to see the calls. Seriously, anywhere. I once had a coach threaten to pull his team off the field because I was working B and C positions in the infield on the small field, and I was 'not allowed to be there'. Well it was machine pitch, and I was the only umpire, and there was no calling balls and strikes, just outs. I just didn't feel right standing that far away (outside the infield) with no umpire at home. I wondered if I actually was allowed to be where I wanted during the game, and so I looked it up... yep!

[Dragon29]

I understand positioning is considered to be part of "umpire mechanics". I just didnt know if there was something written making these positions a requirement.

Rule? We don't need no stinkin' rule!

Do what your local League &/or District tell you to do at their clinic(s) or in whatever information they distribute.

I would, however, not do what Jboval mentioned in his post - at least, not at any higher level than machine pitch (& personally for me, not even then) On a 60' diamond, that ball can come at you awfully fast!

[semper_fi_72]

Can someone help me out here with the rule stating where LL umpires should be positioned?

Thanks for your help

Armgdnman

Some the info you have been given so far is totally bogus.

First of all LL does not call for Umpires in Machine Pitch.

Umpires are only called for in competitive levels, which is Minor and above.

Little League publishes a book, which is actually 2 books in one.

It is "The Umpire in Little League: and "Make the Right Call" The casebook of Little League Baseball and Softball.

It has positioning for two and three man mechanics for 60' and 90' diamonds.

You should be able to get that from your League UIC or order it from your Regional HQ or WP.

Basically if you are familiar with working regular mechanics on a 90' then:

For Minor and Major 60' Diamond.

Positions for B and C are relatively the same as working a 90'.

Remember adjust your stance and position to watch for a runner leaving early.

Second, even though you are starting from an outside position, get inside on any ball hit out of the infield, quickly.

Remember as always, Angle first then close the Distance as possible.

If I can be of any further assistance contact me by Private Message.

Remember...Have Fun and Be Loud out there!!!!!!

Edited May 20, 2010 by semper_fi_72

[semper_fi_72]

Actually the LL rulebook states that an umpire can stand anywhere on the field that he feels will give him the best placement and view to see the calls. Seriously, anywhere. I once had a coach threaten to pull his team off the field because I was working B and C positions in the infield on the small field, and I was 'not allowed to be there'. Well it was machine pitch, and I was the only umpire, and there was no calling balls and strikes, just outs. I just didn't feel right standing that far away (outside the infield) with no umpire at home. I wondered if I actually was allowed to be where I wanted during the game, and so I looked it up... yep!

Jboval

First

You are correct and in correct.

9.03 (a) If there is only one umpire, that umpire must be an adult and shall have complete jurisdiction in administering the rules. This umpire may take any position on the playing field which will enable said umpire to discharge all duties (usually behind the catcher, but sometimes behind the pitcher if there are runners.)

If you are working Machine Pitch...fine and dandy, but I do not know many programs that use Umpires for T-Ball or Machine Pitch which is a non-competitive, instructional division that use Umpires. It is a waste of time and since Jr Umpires can not work without an Adult Umpire on the field, it is a waste of an "Umpires" time.

Second

Please get yourself a copy of the book I recommended to Armgdnman so you can be more knowledgeable.

I would hate to see you take Rule 9.03(a) (The way you feel about working where you want) onto a 60' diamond during a real Minor or Major Game. If I am the PU, I will be sending you home and be working work it solo from behind the dish.

[Rich Ives]

Umpire positioning is not a rule. It is a mechanic for obtaining the best position to see a play or violation. And, it changes all the time.

In LL where runners have to wait for the ball to "cross the plate", the umpires stand on the outside of the infield. Then, they can see the runner and have everything in front of them to see if he leaves early.

Others who do LL will better describe this.

Well, for those who do LL: it's "reaches the batter".

[Jboval]

You know, sometimes people just love to take something somebody says and twist it to make an argument where they can feel like they are right and flaunt their 'superior' knowledge.

First off, all I was doing was stating what the rulebook said, which was the basis for me being able to stand behind the pitcher during this game. To take it and twist it into me using the rule to support standing anywhere I wanted on the field during a more highly competitive level, just makes you sound like someone that likes to argue about nothing.

Secondly, I guess now you have heard of a league that has umpires in a level that uses Machine Pitch. This was AAA level, and our local association dictates that the first two innings in the first half of our 20 game season be machine pitch, and the remaining innings kid pitch. Seeing as how at this level, the association does not schedule umpires, and since my own son was on this team, I volunteered to call the game. First two behind the pitcher so I can be approx the same distance from all bags/plate, and second two behind the plate so I can call balls and strikes. I worry more about getting a safe/out call correct than worrying about the kids leaving early. Although I don't agree with the league using the machine at this level, the kids do get a lot of hits, and therefore, there are a lot of plays at the plate.

Now I know some of you older farts don't move very quickly, but I have never been hit by a ball on the field. I tend to be agile enough to get out of the way in plenty of time. If I felt that I wasn't of the ability to do so, I probably wouldn't risk my safety in such a way.

So there, have I fully explained every thing in a manner that is consistent and proper so that you may not try to crucify me in the name of LL baseball? The whole point was to state that a coach threatened to remove his team from the field because I was not allowed to position myself where I was. The rulebook supports my ability to stand where I was, behind the pitcher. If I want to call my sons game at a low level where the balls are normally hit with barely enough force to leave the infield while standing in that position, I will continue to do so.....with the full support of the rulebook.

[semper_fi_72]

Jboyal

Since your league does not assign Umpires to Machine Pitch and you just volunteered to work the game, I still do not know a league that uses Umpires for Machine Pitch.

I would also say that you should not be working any game that your son is playing in. That is called a "Conflict of Interest". That will cause you additional problems at some time. We have a Umpire who has a son that plays on a Major team. We won't even allow him to work a Major game in that league.

As far as old farts that can't move, don't know how old you are, but at 55 I would bet I can run and move as good as if not better than you. 123 games under my belt for 2010, with 7 more over the next 3 days. Adult, High School, USSSA, PONY and Little League.

If your worried about getting into position to make a good call, wait till you work 1 Man at a higher level of ball and you are hustling to call everything when the ball is really moving.

If the ball is barely hit hard enough to get out of the infield you should have plenty of time to get the proper Angle and Distance to make a call, on any base, by using the proper Positioning. Those positions are standardized for many reasons and one is safety of yourself and players.

One of the reasons to work outside on the small diamond for Little League is so you are not in front of infielders and therefore not a distracting to them trying to field a ball. That presence at their age can influence a play and a game.

:clap:

[DirtyDawg]

Alright gentlemen, let's just calm down, have a beer, and remember that we are all brothers with a common bond, umpiring. Let's come together with respect for one another and just concentrate on the common goal we all have, coming together to learn and better ourselves as umpires.

As for umpires with machine pitch, I have seen it. My area uses this (or at least used to when I played), and with this out there, the umpire is actually the person who feeds the ball into the catcher. I believe strikes are called at this level, too (especially the swinging strikes).

Jb....I commend you for being a volunteer umpire at these games. I know that all the umpiring I've ever done was paid umpiring, and I know given the levels I did, I wouldn't have it any other way (especially with some of the coaches and fans I have had in the bleachers).

As far as my stance on the game with parents as umpires, I have seen this, as well, in my past leagues. Typically in this situation, the umpire with a relation of any sort is the umpire in the field, thus leaving the calling of balls and strikes to no error.

I ask this, do they use one fan as an umpire, or do they have a collaboration from each stand. I'm sure you've probably not had any problem with this, but it might help later on down the road to "even things out" in the minds of others.

Gentlemen, I respect both of you greatly, and have enjoyed your stories over my time here at U-E.com. For this, I just want to say thanks!

[Jboval]

Our association has about 600 players from tball - Jr's during the Spring Season. Being here in FL, we also have a Fall Season that has about 400 players. Unfortunately, our league does not pay any umpires, period. I started umpiring for my local LL when I was 14, and am now 38. I took some breaks in there, but have always loved umpiring and been a student of it. At age 19 I was a certified umpire doing High School Varsity games. I have probably the same amount of experience as most people 20 yr's my senior.

Needless to say, with my experience as an umpire, once my children reached the age where they started playing competitively in LL, I was aggravated at the poor umpiring in my league. I am sure this is mostly, if not entirely, the result of the league's stance of not paying their umpires and relying solely on volunteers. So, I had a choice, get involved, or get over it. I got involved. Anyone that had a problem with me calling my own son's games, well let's just say they were given an open invitation to join me on the field, although I have never had any takers. I don't say no to any age level when asked to umpire, because I feel if the parents and players learn what real umpiring is like early in LL, then they will have less issues down the line.

Anyways, I volunteer umpire in excess of 70-80 games every spring, and probably half that in the fall. I do also umpire some USSSA and 18 and over ball. All this being said, I refuse to have a self important jerk that knows nothing about me, or my efforts, knowledge or commitment to the kids, tell me that he "would send you home if you were assigned to work a game with me" or whatever he said specifically. I challenge him to come work a full season with me, for free, while also Managing my middle son's team with games of our own twice a week and practice once a week. Otherwise, I would rather he just take the time to get to know the situations his fellow umpires find themselves in before passing such harsh judgement and criticism and posting it on here for all to see. Like you get some perverse enjoyment on showing everyone here in the forum how much more intelligent and skilled you are than this poor sap that doesn't seem to know that there is a mechanic's manual for LL. Let me show everyone how I would spank him and send him home for being such an idiot. Let me show everyone how I would treat someone with such an obviously lower level of baseball knowledge than myself.... all you accomplished is this: I feel sorry for the others that have been forced to work with you.

I am done with this discussion and this topic. Sorry if my bluntness offended anyone that is not part of it.

DirtyDawg, I appreciate your comments. Thanks for sharing them.

[baseball5150]

Alright gentlemen, let's just calm down, have a beer

i like this idea ...

jboval, in semper's defense I have worked several games with the guy at the little league level and would not recommend anyone better on the field. controls the game with an "assertively humble" demeanor ...

both semper, myself and one other gentleman run a scheduling service for the local little leagues (12 in total) so that they dont have to worry about umpires (unless we mess up ) ... we do this without assigning any scheduling costs to the leagues, minimal rates to the umpires, and a bunch of money out of our own pockets. what we get in return (and the reason I bring this up) are umpires that wont read their rule books, dont care where they should position themselves, forget about dress code, and generally want to get their money and go home.

as I was reading the back and forth, I got the sense from your "the rulebook told me I could stand anywhere I want so I'm going to" comment was the feeling of that same type of umpire we deal with everyday. I'm sure semper's comments were not personally directed towards you, but moreover a response to the thinking that "ill do it whatever way I want to." and let me assure you that our volunteer umpires, the ones that dont take any pay, seem to take far more leeway than the paid ones.

so ya, does it matter where you stand in your league? not to us ... but understand that there are umpires out there that take large amounts of pride with being an umpire, and the umpire position in baseball, and anything they see that would detract from the pride, gets reacted to strongly.

hope this helps you guys ...

[semper_fi_72]

Alright gentlemen, let's just calm down, have a beer,

I would love to have a beer but none in the house and Baseball5150 owes me a couple of 6 packs.

I would like to welcome baseball5150 to the forum.

Now if I can just get him to work more games

[wek29]

So, if as a newbie I can ask a newbie question...and yes I did search, but probably under the wrong heading. Is there anything on the site that goes over basic positioning? I have a feeling the training we got is going to be in conflict based on what I am reading. (I will look into the books mentioned, just looking for info in the meantime.)

[semper_fi_72]

So, if as a newbie I can ask a newbie question...and yes I did search, but probably under the wrong heading. Is there anything on the site that goes over basic positioning? I have a feeling the training we got is going to be in conflict based on what I am reading. (I will look into the books mentioned, just looking for info in the meantime.)

Try this site, lots of LL info

http://stocktonumpires.com/

:question1:

[mstaylor]

PM me and I can send the 60ft and 90ft LL mechanics PPT presentation. The original 60ft was written by a friend of mine that taught at CR for a while before moving to CA to retirement bliss.

[wek29]

semper fi 72 - Thanks I'll check it out now.

mstaylor - I appreciate it. PM sent.

[mstaylor]

My IE went down when I went to switch screens to send the pdf and now I can't access the internet. I am using a computer that I am fixing for a buddy. I will send it as soon as I can.

[24sdad]

To the OP and wek, I have probably the same powerpoint that gives good detail on positioning. Send me a pm if mstaylor doesn't get her computer figured out.

[wek29]

Thanks 24sdad - I went to the site semper fi 72 posted and needless to say I bookmarked it. Very good info. Just as I expected we are not doing it that way. They have us inside the base paths instead of outside.

[mstaylor]

If you are working 60ft LL then you have to be outside or you can't watch the leaving early.

[catoblue]

Back to the OP, here's a link to a slide deck that covers two man " the Little League way"

follow the link and click on the Two Man Rotation link : http://www.ncllbaseball.com/Umpires.aspx

In a nutshell:

No runners - A

1 runner on 1B - B

Any combo of 1 or more runners with someone beyond 2B - C

Ball hit to the infield, stay on the outside, Ball hit to the outfield, come in.

Remember angle to the play is much more important than distance, so try to get a good angle on any play. This can be tough with LL kids, because they don't always go for the play that you would expect them to, so you have to really concentrate on reading the players and letting the ball lead you to the play.

I hope this helps!

Edited May 24, 2010 by catoblue

[Umpire in Chief]

I used these mechanics in a coach pitch tournament I had this weekend. I was a little surprised at how easy it came to me. I was a bit apprehensive about working the outside. It's funny probably my most thorough pregame with my partner of the year was this coach pitch tournament.

[DirtyDawg]

If you are working 60ft LL then you have to be outside or you can't watch the leaving early.

Not to mention that you'll start to feel a little clostrophobic (sp ck). I hope your IE started working for ya again. This would have never happened had you had firefox. , only kidding!