Fueling the fire...

[Replacematt]

So, given some recent discussion, I'll throw this out there...

My thoughts on ejections are:

1. People are going to react.

2. We cannot control their reactions.

3. We can influence what they do.

4. They are ultimately responsible for what they do.

We cannot keep someone in the game if they decide to act inappropriately. We can decide not to act in a manner which would reasonably be expected to have an inappropriate reaction.

Rip this apart, if you will.

[johnnyg08]

I agree 100%. I think we also fall under that category. There are times where our reaction can make a bigger reaction too. I guess an example might be an umpire who insists on the last word or an umpire who baits a coach. Certainly there are times where we might not always do what we're supposed to do and it might lead to an ejection.

My opinion also is that if a coach doesn't know better, he will soon learn to know better (or learn how to act) or he also heads to the parking lot. That way, he will learn. IMO, warnings don't work for every situation. There are times whether we like it or not that the coach gets dumped.

[Haid D' Salaami]

So, given some recent discussion, I'll throw this out there...

My thoughts on ejections are:

1. People are going to react.

2. We cannot control their reactions.

3. We can influence what they do.

4. They are ultimately responsible for what they do.

We cannot keep someone in the game if they decide to act inappropriately. We can decide not to act in a manner which would reasonably be expected to have an inappropriate reaction.

Rip this apart, if you will.

#3 you can't influence what they do... the ey will do what they want, like it or not.

[mstaylor]

1. People are going to react.

2. We cannot control their reactions.

3. We can influence what they do.

4. They are ultimately responsible for what they do.

1. People react to game situations, whether it is a play of our call.

2. We can't always control their reactions.

3. Yes, we can influence, or at least try, what they do. If we jump right back, allowing no discussion then it will end badly. We can try to settle the coach, allow him to discuss the play, explain what we have and come to an understanding. Sometimes that means he understands it won't change, he may still disagree but it is done.

4. They are responsible for their actions. If they come screaming out of the dugout, it is going to be a short day. If he comes for an explanation then explodes, that is his problem.

Ultimately we are responsible for enforcing the rules and maintaining order. If a coach or player can't work in those parameters then they go home. Our responsibility is to not be combative but be the voice of reason.

[mstaylor]

So, given some recent discussion, I'll throw this out there...

My thoughts on ejections are:

1. People are going to react.

2. We cannot control their reactions.

3. We can influence what they do.

4. They are ultimately responsible for what they do.

We cannot keep someone in the game if they decide to act inappropriately. We can decide not to act in a manner which would reasonably be expected to have an inappropriate reaction.

Rip this apart, if you will.

#3 you can't influence what they do... the ey will do what they want, like it or not.

Sure we can influence what they do. Not initially, but once we have a situation we can explain what we have and what we are going to do, and do it calmly. We can try to talk them off the ledge and keep the game going in an orderly fashion. If a coach or player fails to follow our lead, nothing we can do. I am avoiding the dreaded term, keep the coach in the game, that is not our job. Our job is to explain the play and try to defuse the situation. Our job is not to bend over backwards to keep him in, that's his job.

[carolinablue]

The old cliche " It takes two to argue " is true. We can refuse to engage in pointless conversation with them. If they continue to push the issue then they have sealed their own fate.

[Kevin Finnerty]

So, given some recent discussion, I'll throw this out there...

My thoughts on ejections are:

1. People are going to react.

2. We cannot control their reactions.

3. We can influence what they do.

4. They are ultimately responsible for what they do.

We cannot keep someone in the game if they decide to act inappropriately. We can decide not to act in a manner which would reasonably be expected to have an inappropriate reaction.

Rip this apart, if you will.

This is as concise and thorough an analysis and summary as I have ever seen. It is applicable to virtually all coach/manager ejections. It should be in the manual.

Honestly, I commend you.

Merry Christmas.

[kylejt]

I never argue with managers. I tell them the call, or the rule that applies. That's it. Anything after that is all on them. When you've heard enough, let them know it. If they want to continue, it's on their time.If they wish to eject themselves, that's cool.

I've never, ever understood why some umpires find this so complicated. I've ejected five coaches in the last dozen years, and none in the last five. I just don't let it get that far, and I guess I just don't have that many problems. Take that for whatever it's worth.

[johnnyg08]

The issue in our area is that umpires aren't dumping when they should. I work with some guys who haven't had an ejection in 20 years!

I'm certainly not saying that we go out there looking for trouble, but you can't tell me that you've had zero ejectable offenses in 20 years averaging 80-90 games per season in MN.

[mstaylor]

The issue in our area is that umpires aren't dumping when they should. I work with some guys who haven't had an ejection in 20 years!

I'm certainly not saying that we go out there looking for trouble, but you can't tell me that you've had zero ejectable offenses in 20 years averaging 80-90 games per season in MN.

Very good point, many think that ejections are bad, that it will affect their games. Some groups feel the same thing. I personally think that there is nothing wrong with good ejections. We write ejection reports for two reasons, one to let the league know what happened, the other to let the umpire assoc know what happened. As a group we have to determine if our umpire handled the situation correctly. Sometimes ejections happen because the umpire didn't rule correctly and got defensive.

[kylejt]

Dont' get me wrong, fellas, I'm not against dumping a guy anytime he crosses the line. And my line is pretty thin. But I just don't seem to have the troubles that other folks do. Maybe it's my area, or my personal style, but folks just don't seem to get riled up when I officiate games.

One tip that's served me well is getting all the coaches first name at the plate meeting, and using them throughout the game. Nothing stems the ire quicker than using someone's first name at the outset of any sort of disagreement. Couple that with the ol' hand up like a traffic cop, when I've heard enough from the dugout, and nobody seems to want to argue with me anymore.

[Chris Hickman]

Depending on how many games you work per season , if you don't have atleast 1 or 2 ejections u are probably not doing your job . Ejections are part of the game.

[AZump78]

So, given some recent discussion, I'll throw this out there...

My thoughts on ejections are:

1. People are going to react.

2. We cannot control their reactions.

3. We can influence what they do.

4. They are ultimately responsible for what they do.

We cannot keep someone in the game if they decide to act inappropriately. We can decide not to act in a manner which would reasonably be expected to have an inappropriate reaction.

Rip this apart, if you will.

#3 you can't influence what they do... the ey will do what they want, like it or not.

You can't CONTROL what they do, but you can INFLUENCE what they do, simply by what you do or say (or how you do it or say it).

[mstaylor]

Dont' get me wrong, fellas, I'm not against dumping a guy anytime he crosses the line. And my line is pretty thin. But I just don't seem to have the troubles that other folks do. Maybe it's my area, or my personal style, but folks just don't seem to get riled up when I officiate games.

One tip that's served me well is getting all the coaches first name at the plate meeting, and using them throughout the game. Nothing stems the ire quicker than using someone's first name at the outset of any sort of disagreement. Couple that with the ol' hand up like a traffic cop, when I've heard enough from the dugout, and nobody seems to want to argue with me anymore.

I have had similar experiences, I had one coach ejection, maybe a player or two, maybe none. I can usually control things well enough that things don't get to the ejection point. The other side is most coaches know that I will toss when needed, so they don't go over the line.

[yawetag]

Depending on how many games you work per season , if you don't have atleast 1 or 2 ejections u are probably not doing your job . Ejections are part of the game.

Chris, how many games do you expect an umpire to do for each ejection?

[AZump78]

In my association, we are told that is we have more than one (maybe two) EJs per 25 to 30 games (a typical spring schedule for the majority of guys) than you either have game management issues (ie you are a 'red ass') or you are likely missing way to many judgement calls.

[mstaylor]

In my association, we are told that is we have more than one (maybe two) EJs per 25 to 30 games (a typical spring schedule for the majority of guys) than you either have game management issues (ie you are a 'red ass') or you are likely missing way to many judgement calls.

See, that's the wrong way for an organization to look at it. If I work four or five high games that may make a difference in the post season, then I may have a couple, I may have none. I may work four or five games with coaches that aren't very good and they are out there arguing stupid things that may lead to ejections.

Every ejection is unique and needs to be looked at to see what caused the problem. By no means am I saying that all ejections are justified, because there are bad ejections.

Last year we had a team in the men's league that the same coach got tossed twice and his son got tossed once. When the son got tossed, Dad had preceded him by minutes. I happen to witness the whole thing and both ejections were good.

[AZump78]

MST-

You are right, if you look only at a season or two of work, solely looking at the # does not tell the whole story. But if 95% of the group has 0, 1, or 2 EJs a year, year after year, and the same small group of guys has 3-5 per year, every year, that does tell you something about those umpires.

[mstaylor]

The other umpires aren't doing their job?

[AZump78]

The other umpires aren't doing their job?

...sigh...

Not even close.

[johnnyg08]

MST-

You are right, if you look only at a season or two of work, solely looking at the # does not tell the whole story. But if 95% of the group has 0, 1, or 2 EJs a year, year after year, and the same small group of guys has 3-5 per year, every year, that does tell you something about those umpires.

Sorry C. Brown. I think I disagree...it's too black and white to think of it that way. Why would the small group of 3-5 umpires be what you're implying as the poor umpires?

[Haid D' Salaami]

Depending on how many games you work per season , if you don't have atleast 1 or 2 ejections u are probably not doing your job . Ejections are part of the ga.

Chris, how many games do you expect an umpire to do for each ejection?

You can't put a number on it.. but sometimes coaches will come out just to get dumped.. its part of the game.. they like to do it just to get there team fired up. It happens.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Depending on how many games you work per season , if you don't have atleast 1 or 2 ejections u are probably not doing your job . Ejections are part of the ga.

Chris, how many games do you expect an umpire to do for each ejection?

You cant put a number on it.. but sometimes coaches will come out just to get dumped.. its part of the game.. they like to do it just to get there team fired up. It happens.

[Haid D' Salaami]

So, given some recent discussion, I'll throw this out there...

My thoughts on ejections are:

1. People are going to react.

2. We cannot control their reactions.

3. We can influence what they do.

4. They are ultimately responsible for what they do.

We cannot keep someone in the game if they decide to act inappropriately. We can decide not to act in a manner which would reasonably be expected to have an inappropriate reaction.

Rip this apart, if you will.

#3 you can't influence what they do... the ey will do what they want, like it or not.

You can't CONTROL what they do, but you can INFLUENCE what they do, simply by what you do or say (or how you do it or say it).

I will disagree... sometimes they want to get tossed, your words are not gonna stop anything...LOL

[mstaylor]

The other umpires aren't doing their job?

...sigh...

Not even close.

I should have used a emoticon, it was tongue in cheek. It does prove that each ejection has to be looked at and decided if it was a good toss or not. The guys with one or two could be said that they are taking too much crap. It could be said that other group that averages three to five are too thin skinned or not using good game management. What the numbers say is nothing. It could be a mix of both things. Looking at numbers is no way to track what guys are doing.

Coaches will get tossed on purpose at times. That is just an anomaly that proves that numbers alone is not a gage.