Foul or Out?

[moblue]

There was a situation today in a HS game that caused some "what if" discussion between several people watching the game (myself included). Batter fouls the ball back, which ricochets off R2's mask and up into the air towards the infield. F1 runs forward and catches the ball before it touches the ground. Is it a foul ball or an out? For this play F1 was not able to make the catch, thus foul.

[carolinablue]

I believe the most it could be is a foul tip, if it goes directly to F2's hands and then the mask and F1 then catches it. It would be an out if there were two strikes on the batter.

Edited May 18, 2010 by carolinablue

[tommy]

you simply have a foul ball. if F1 would have caught the ball you would still have a foul ball. once the tipped ball has touched the catcher it is a foul ball and out of play unless he catches it with his glove or his bare hand. ( hope not the bare hand, that would hurt but it would count )

[carolinablue]

I thought that if it went sharp and direct to the catchers glove or hand and then is legally caught by any fielder, it is a foul tip. I may be wrong, it may have to be caught by the catcher.:HS

[th3]

in fed baseball a foul tip can be caught by any fielder..in softball must be by the catcher (after going sharply and directly from the bat to the catchers hand or glove)...i think in the OP it would be a dead ball foul ball as soon as it hit the catchers mask 1st (what was i thinking?)

Edited May 18, 2010 by th3

[mstaylor]

Foul tip if touched hand or glove then caught by anybody. It's a foul ball in any other ruleset. I will have defer to th3 on softball.

[th3]

im re-thinking my dead ball though....if it does deflect off the mask and bound out to the pitcher..is it a caught foul ball? (not foul tip)..? i guess so right? wouldnt be any different that a foul fly ball that deflects off the 3rd basepersons glove and is then caught by the catcher...so a caught foul ball

Edited May 18, 2010 by th3

[Thunderheads]

Isn't it foul regardless, ....because it must hit the catchers mit BEFORE it hits the mask and deflects up?:HS

[JaxRolo]

Agree it must touch the catchers mitt or hand before caught then it is a foul tip.

[BrianC14]

Guys, as soon as the ball contacted F2's mask, it became a foul ball.

[Mr Umpire]

This is a foul ball. It has to hit F2's glove or hand first. Then, it is only a foul tip and live ball if it doesn't hit the ground. No out given unless 3rd strike.

[th3]

why no out given...why isnt it a caught foul ball?

[noumpere]

why no out given...why isnt it a caught foul ball?

Because it's the rule.

If the ball goes sharply and directly first to the hand / mitt, it can pinball off of any of F2's body parts and then be caught by F2 for a foul tip. In FED ONLY, it can also be caught by any other fielder and be a foul tip. In OBR and NCAA, if it's caught by another fielder, it's a foul ball.

If the ball goes sharply and directly to any part of F2 other than the hand / mitt, it's immediately foul. Anything else that happens doesn't matter (excpet to give the fans something to talk about.)

[th3]

..immediately foul AND dead? can you tell me ehere i can find that?

Edited May 18, 2010 by th3

[th3]

nevermind...found it...

FED rule 5 art 1, d, 2...ball becomes dead immediately when a foul ball goes directly from the bat to the catchers protector, mask or person w/out 1st touching the catchers glove or hand

thanks

[moblue]

And there we go. We had all decided it would be an out by using the situation of a fielder juggling a fly ball and a teammate catching it before it hit the ground. Apparently neither one of the umpires at the game knew what to call. A fan asked one about it and he spoke with his partner between innings, and they couldn't come up with an answer.

[BrianC14]

And there we go. We had all decided it would be an out by using the situation of a fielder juggling a fly ball and a teammate catching it before it hit the ground. Apparently neither one of the umpires at the game knew what to call. A fan asked one about it and he spoke with his partner between innings, and they couldn't come up with an answer.

Consider that F2 is the only player in foul territory. A batted ball that touches any thing or any person over foul territory is.... a foul ball.

[JaxRolo]

Consider that F2 is the only player in foul territory. A batted ball that touches any thing or any person over foul territory is.... a foul ball.

Very good way to put it Brian.

[ukce1861]

Consider that F2 is the only player in foul territory. A batted ball that touches any thing or any person over foul territory is.... a foul ball.

But why can't it be caught for an out? What if you had a foul fly that tipped off one fielders glove and was caught by another fielder. Is that an out?

[th3]

but brian...if the third baseman and catcher are converging on a pop up and it hits the third basemans (a) glove or ( shoulder, and then is caught by the catcher, all in foul territory...whats the call?

[carolinablue]

2.00 in OBR, definition of a foul tip specifically states it is not a catch if it is a rebound unless the ball 1st touched the catchers glove or hand.

[BrianC14]

But why can't it be caught for an out? What if you had a foul fly that tipped off one fielders glove and was caught by another fielder. Is that an out?

BECAUSE IT'S A FOUL BALL.

Stop trying to compare this to a foul pop fly. It isn't a foul pop fly - it's simply a foul ball.

Would you also ask "Why can't the ball bounce off the back stop and then be caught for an out? " The reason it can't be caught for an out is because it's already a foul ball once it hit the back stop.

Edited May 18, 2010 by BrianC14

[BrianC14]

but brian...if the third baseman and catcher are converging on a pop up and it hits the third basemans (a) glove or ( shoulder, and then is caught by the catcher, all in foul territory...whats the call?

See my previous reply.

What you're describing here is a foul pop that is caught for an out.

[mrumpiresir]

Any pitch that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher is going to be one of two things; A foul tip if it hits the catcher's hand or mitt and is held; or a foul ball if anything else happens. The only way it would be a caught fly for an out would be if it was not sharp and direct to the catcher. IOW if it was popped up (not sharp and direct), it could bounce of the catcher and be caught by the catcher or another defensive player for the out.

[ukce1861]

Stop trying to compare this to a foul pop fly. It isn't a foul pop fly - it's simply a foul ball.

Would you also ask "Why can't the ball bounce off the back stop and then be caught for an out? " The reason it can't be caught for an out is because it's already a foul ball once it hit the back stop.

Alright, I'm trying not to be dense here; I really am. What's the difference between a Foul Ball and a Foul Pop Fly? In 2.00, I see Foul Ball and I see Foul Tip. Clearly, this is not - by definition - a Foul Tip. The only mention I see of a Foul Fly is in the definition of a Foul Ball and it doesn't really seem to be delineating it from a Foul Ball, per se.

I see a difference between hitting the backstop and being caught. Based on various rules, hitting something other than a defensive player (e.g. a wall, an umpire, an offensive player, the ground) makes a ball not "catchable". But hitting a defensive player seems to be the one exception. Why, in this case, would a ball be "uncatchable" only because it hit a defensive player?