Fake tag

[dportz]

Is this a fake tag play????

R1, hit and run - ball hit into left field. F6 goes to second base, while standing on the bag he fakes a catch from the field and pretends to turn two towards first. This causes R1 to slide. Ball was never there and in fact over thrown and fielded by F3.

In my opinion R2 would have never made third, however he would have at least had the option to round. I think that F6 obstructed R1 by making him slide. The argument of course is that R1 should have been watching the ball.

This is Sr V HS ball. I spoke to the coach and he said they do this all the time and they do it in the bigs all the time.

Any advice????

Dean

[D62 blue]

doesnt matter what they do in MLB , that is pro ball , not H S . just because the coach says they do it all the time doesnt validate action . maybe other umpires(previous games) didnt catch the obstruction. imho you have obstruction , you have a fielder standing on the bag with out the ball , causing the runner (hinder, impede) to slide . forget any other fake tag issue ,btw fake tag is obstruction and could be dangerous for the runner(s) and you could award third to the runner , just to make the point . you are right with the obstruction call .

my.02

[Guest]

This problem will take care of itself when the next batter eats a pitch. Phantom tags are dangerous but not outlawed by the rules - it's not in our power to do anything here, except perhaps turn a blind eye to the next pitch

On the other hand, I had this happen last year at 3B, and the base coach lost it on the fielder, actually coming out of the box and across the foul line to get in his face - the coach found himself ejected quickly.

[kcfan102]

The argument of course is that R1 should have been watching the ball.

Dean

When I was 9, my coaches yelled, and yelled, begged, pleaded with us to "pick up our coach" 5-10 feet before the bag.

I have obstruction for sure too.

[kwiggie]

Phantom tags are dangerous but not outlawed by the rules - it's not in our power to do anything here, except perhaps turn a blind eye to the next pitch.

If I am reading it right the op states that this is a HS game. Phantomfake tags are illegal and this base runner could be awarded an additional base if judged apropriate.

[BrianC14]

Is this a fake tag play????

R1, hit and run - ball hit into left field. F6 goes to second base, while standing on the bag he fakes a catch from the field and pretends to turn two towards first. This causes R1 to slide. Ball was never there and in fact over thrown and fielded by F3.

In my opinion R2 would have never made third, however he would have at least had the option to round. I think that F6 obstructed R1 by making him slide. The argument of course is that R1 should have been watching the ball.

This is Sr V HS ball. I spoke to the coach and he said they do this all the time and they do it in the bigs all the time.

Any advice????

Dean

You're in Canada, correct? And if memory serves, they don't use FED rules in Canada. If you're using straight OBR, then this is a legal play.

If using FED (NFHS) rules, then this is obstruction.

[noumpere]

A "fake play" or a "fake catch" is not the same as a "fake tag." I do NOT have obstruction in FED rules on the play as described.

[Umpire in Chief]

This would fall under HTBT if I think their fake play obstructed the runner (I don't care if he would have made it to third or not) then I'll call it. But how many times have we seen completely unnecessary slides into a base, which would make it hard to judge.

[JaxRolo]

A "fake play" or a "fake catch" is not the same as a "fake tag." I do NOT have obstruction in FED rules on the play as described.

How is a Fake Play not the same as a fake tag?

[DirtyDawg]

How is a Fake Play not the same as a fake tag?

Especially since the "fake tag" rule was put in play to prevent runners from having to do any unecessary sliding. If I'm not mistaking, isn't the "fake tag" play also grounds for a team warning/ejection?

[DirtyDawg]

Is this a fake tag play????

The argument of course is that R1 should have been watching the ball.

If R1 is a good runner, he shouldn't be watching the ball. If he watches the ball and not the base he is running to he wastes valuable time because people never tend to run as fast as if they are looking where they are going. He then has to judge by how the fielder reacts or how his base coach reacts to know what he is supposed to do next.

[noumpere]

How is a Fake Play not the same as a fake tag?

Fake Tag is explicitly defined in rule 2.

Don't go reading more into it than intended.

I'm reasonably certain there was an interpretation of this several years ago.

[Stan W.]

dekes are legal under fed rules, fake tags are not.....simulating a catch is legal....I got nothing.....will post rulings when I can get to my BRD

[kwiggie]

Fake Tag is explicitly defined in rule 2..

I am looking at 2-22.1, and could not find a Rules by TopicCase Play to say anything about fake catches or otherwise. I like were this is going so far.

Don't go reading more into it than intended..

I have to admit that this rule (2-22.1) is pretty vague in general and really lends itself to being "read into" more then maybe it should.

I'm reasonably certain there was an interpretation of this several years ago.

If you or anyone else has it post it, I am truly hoping that Stan puts up somthing to back you up... I get excited everytime fed doesn't decide to address somthing from "Old School Ball" such as the fake cut-off, or the fake bunt slash swing, etc, etc.

[mstaylor]

In Fed, fake tag illegal, fake play OK.

[dportz]

BrianC14

You are right. I am in Canada. We use the LL rules for High School ball.

Thanks for the input. I knew I would get an answer here.

Dean